HydroMinder Issue

[rshiggaon]

So, I've got this weird thing happening with my presoak mix tank on my JC super saver setup. It's acting all wonky - the mix seems watered down, and the white tank isn't sitting straight (attached pic).

I've tried a few fixes already:

• Swapped out the old Hydrominder for a new one.
• Popped in a check valve between the manifold and where the mix flows out.
• Disconnected the input hose to the check valve. Turned on the rinse and presoak functions on all bays to see if there was any water backflow. Only a few drops came out, nothing major.
• Drained the mixture tank and tested the Hydrominder. It seems to be doing its job right. The white can stayed straight and the level was also right. Also, the mixture looked strong
• I have removed each of the solenoid stems, replaced a few, and cleaned for any debris for all the bays.

I'm pretty sure there's a leak somewhere because the mix keeps getting diluted (when we come the next day) and overflows to the floor. Appreciate any tips or pointers!

Thanks.

 

[edredtop]

So, I've got this weird thing happening with my presoak mix tank on my JC super saver setup. It's acting all wonky - the mix seems watered down, and the white tank isn't sitting straight (attached pic).

I've tried a few fixes already:

• Swapped out the old Hydrominder for a new one.
• Popped in a check valve between the manifold and where the mix flows out.
• Disconnected the input hose to the check valve. Turned on the rinse and presoak functions on all bays to see if there was any water backflow. Only a few drops came out, nothing major.
• Drained the mixture tank and tested the Hydrominder. It seems to be doing its job right. The white can stayed straight and the level was also right. Also, the mixture looked strong
• I have removed each of the solenoid stems, replaced a few, and cleaned for any debris for all the bays.

I'm pretty sure there's a leak somewhere because the mix keeps getting diluted (when we come the next day) and overflows to the floor. Appreciate any tips or pointers!

Thanks.

Reinvestigate those "drips"
Sounds like you have a solenoid at one of your pumps not closing all of the way and it's allowing either rinse back pressure to fill your holding tank or a siphon condition to exist where it's dripping in. (This would be on the draw side of the system; the supply side seems to be ok based on your description)
Your condition appears to be enough to never let your (weighted) float activate the hydrominder and allow the presoak to be drawn in.
That's why your finding the float sideways in the morning and just clear water with no mix.
That's my 2 cents.

 

[rshiggaon]

Thanks! That's what my initial thought was. I did look over all the solenoids, and I ended up swapping out a few that seemed rusty or had sticky stems. Others looked ok.

I also added a check valve, just to rule out this issue. I thought it would be airtight, with no drops. I ignored the drops thinking it would not have pressure to push against the gravity. Do you reckon the check valve will not stop this backflow?

 

[Randy]

Check your check valves out in the bay where the low pressure system connect to the high pressure line. I've had a few up on the boom leak by over the years. Solenoid valves only stop the flow of water in one direction. A bad check valve in the weep system will always cause a problem what your having.

 

[rshiggaon]

The presoak, along with the soap and clear coat, is injected into the cat pump. The tire cleaner and Softfree, however, are fed through a separate line, which is teed on top of the bay. We are experiencing this issue specifically with the presoak others look good.

 

[Greg Pack]

I see you're in Houston. Has your weep running? If so, drain some product out of the tank and measure the tank depth. Turn on your weep and check to see if the tank level rises. Also make sure all your cold water rinse valves are closing. Some check valves don't close well under low pressure and may be allowing seepage back in.

For those that aren't familiar with coleman pump stands, they offer a "medium pressure presoak". It works just like HP soap in the bay would work but they also open a solenoid to knock the pressure down to the suggested 400psi.

I'm converting my one Coleman stand to low pressure presoak this week. I've hated medium pressure presoak since it was new and I think it was a terrible idea by Coleman. It has super long change over times (30 seconds plus) and the diluted presoak products don't clean shit.

 

[rshiggaon]

Yes I am based in Houston. I'm still trying to understand how my weep function operates on my JC system, as it's not something we frequently engage with or maintain.

Currently, I've closed the ball valve that links the weep to the pump, which is accompanied by a check valve. Additionally, there's a half-open ball valve situated beneath the rinse holding tank, featuring an inline check valve. Here is a video link on how my setup looks.

A few observations I have seen:

• My rinse-holding tank looks clean, I don't see any product.
• When I disconnected the input hose to the pre-soak manifold I could see very small stream of water. I added a check valve it reduced to a few drops. I don't see this small stream with wax or soap.

How can I activate the weep function? Why would this result in backflow, it should happen with the rinse supply line also, right?

One thing

 

[Greg Pack]

If either your weep or rinse is stuck on in any bay that could cause the backflow problem.

There should be a thermostat on the wall that controls the weep system. It will be somewhere that allows a bulb going through an opening that is sensing outside air, or you may have a electronic weepmizer that turns that valve on and off. The weep is a normally open (NO)solenoid so if there is no power applied to the solenoid coil it will be open and allowing water to flow.
Remove the poly line going to the weep check valve and see if water is flowing. It should not unless it's freezing temps outside. If it is running you need to adjust the thermostat to cut the weep off(by applying power to the NO solenoid). If that thermostat has been removed then check each bay ball valve to make sure they are indeed tuning off and water is not getting by. Make sure the pressure on the regulator going to the rinse and weep manifold is not too high also. I keep mine set at 20-30 psi.

Check your rinse solenoid to make sure they are indeed not open. The only time pressurized rinse water should be feed to that manifold is when rinse is selected in the bay.

 

[rshiggaon]

Cool, thanks!

So, my weep solenoids are supposed to be normally closed, right? I checked the poly line, and no water came out, confirming they're closed. Then, I tweaked the weep temperature, and they all activated, flushing out water. The mixture tank level stayed the same, though in my testing.

Still haven't cracked the problem, but at least I picked up something new about the weep system.

It's one of those head-scratchers, just gotta keep digging for the root cause.

 

[edredtop]

Cool, thanks!

So, my weep solenoids are supposed to be normally closed, right? I checked the poly line, and no water came out, confirming they're closed. Then, I tweaked the weep temperature, and they all activated, flushing out water. The mixture tank level stayed the same, though in my testing.

Still haven't cracked the problem, but at least I picked up something new about the weep system.

It's one of those head-scratchers, just gotta keep digging for the root cause.

Try taking the draw side tube out of the mixer and place it in a 5 gallon bucket for a few hours to see if that's the leaky side.
This will also separate the feed side and you'll be able to see if something weird is going on with your hydrominder.
If you find it's the draw side, then completely disconnect one pump station at a time to see if it stops the leak. Then you can isolate what it is on that pump that's undesirable.
That's my 2 cents for a total of 4 cents

 

[Randy]

Cool, thanks!

So, my weep solenoids are supposed to be normally closed, right? I checked the poly line, and no water came out, confirming they're closed. Then, I tweaked the weep temperature, and they all activated, flushing out water. The mixture tank level stayed the same, though in my testing.

Still haven't cracked the problem, but at least I picked up something new about the weep system.

It's one of those head-scratchers, just gotta keep digging for the root cause.

What kind of weep controller do you have? Your weep valves should be normally open, they do this so if the power fails the valve will open and the weep water will run preventing the system from freezing. I think your looking at the wrong place for your problem. I think your problem is out in the bay with one of the check valves up on the boom leaking by.

 

[rshiggaon]

Try taking the draw side tube out of the mixer and place it in a 5 gallon bucket for a few hours to see if that's the leaky side.
This will also separate the feed side and you'll be able to see if something weird is going on with your hydrominder.
If you find it's the draw side, then completely disconnect one pump station at a time to see if it stops the leak. Then you can isolate what it is on that pump that's undesirable.
That's my 2 cents for a total of 4 cents

Yes, good idea. I am going to give this a try.

 

[rshiggaon]

What kind of weep controller do you have? Your weep valves should be normally open, they do this so if the power fails the valve will open and the weep water will run preventing the system from freezing. I think your looking at the wrong place for your problem. I think your problem is out in the bay with one of the check valves up on the boom leaking by.

I have the JC system installed, which includes the weep functionality. While I don't have check valves on the HP line, both the tire cleaner and Soft Free, which are connected via tee to the HP manifold in the bay, do have check valves. I've ensured that all the Soft Free check valves are working perfectly; however, I haven't yet checked the tire cleaner's check valves. Given I didn't see any green color (tire cleaner) I assumed it was not the issue. This issue happens with the presoak only, the soap/wax (that works the same as presoak) are all fine.