Is an alkaline booster necessary

[Rickdm1722]

Hi Everyone,

I'm making some changes to my wash packages in my touchless IBA. The first think I'm tackling is presoaks.


This is going to be my top package

1st Step - Under Carraige Rinse 1150 psi
2nd Step - One pass Low PH (HF) at a ratio of 85:1
3rd Step - dwell for 20 seconds
4th Step - One pass of High PH at a Ratio of 105:1 w/added alkaline booster
5th Step - Dwell for 10 seconds
6th Step - High pressure rinse 1150 psi
7th Step - Triple Foam Conditioner Low PH
8th Step - High Pressure Rinse 1150 psi
9th Step - Ceramic or Graphene Low pressure 200 psi
10th Step - Polymer wax high pressure 800 psi
11th Step - Spot Free Rinse
12th Step - Dryer

1) Is an alkaline booster worth it?

2) If I'm at a ratio of 105:1 with my high ph, and I run a dual injector (.083) and I put on the smallest tip for the booster and the alkaline jumps through the roof, do I start reducing tip sizes on the actual presoak until I get back to 105:1?

Any advice or recommendations on setting up an alkaline booster would be appreciated.

Wash World High Velocity

Thanks

Update: I plug one side of the dual injector and then titrate my high ph presoak and come up with 47 drops, then I plug my presoak side and attach my boost and titrate at the arch and come up with 5 drops on my booster. Now I'm thinking if I run booth the presoak and the booster it should 47+5 + 52 drops but it's actually 61 drops now at the arch. So is the booster, boosting the PH in the presoak? or does the dual injector draw differently when one side or the other is plug. Any help on how to correctly do this would be helpful.

 

[AnalyticWash]

Perhaps you should start by figuring out why you are boosting to start? Do cars come out clean without it? What chemicals?

I'd be looking at why you need 3 HP passes in a wash cycle plus UC at 1150psi. You must use 100+ gallons of water per car...

 

[ShinePro]

First - we have no idea where you are
(Dont know why anybody gets on here and doesnt say at least what state they are in)

Each region of the country is different

I have razors
No idea why you are running lo ph first!
You can cut the alkaline down drop wise if you put it on first

Then come with the hf

does your alkaline need boosted?
I have one that boost actually makes it less effective.

Any de-bug?

 

[Rickdm1722]

Perhaps you should start by figuring out why you are boosting to start? Do cars come out clean without it? What chemicals?

I'd be looking at why you need 3 HP passes in a wash cycle plus UC at 1150psi. You must use 100+ gallons of water per car...

I'm considering boosting to give my high ph that added punch, plus it adds an extra feature to my top package. I'm just not 100 percent sure yet what the best way to set it up using this dual injector.

1st pass high pressure rinse is to rinse off the presoak, 2nd is to rinse off the triple foam, 3rd pass is a drying agent at 800psi

 

[Rickdm1722]

First - we have no idea where you are
(Dont know why anybody gets on here and doesnt say at least what state they are in)

Each region of the country is different

I have razors
No idea why you are running lo ph first!
You can cut the alkaline down drop wise if you put it on first

Then come with the hf

does your alkaline need boosted?
I have one that boost actually makes it less effective.

Any de-bug?

Omaha Nebraska

I always thought is was better to run the Low Ph first to help with cleaning the glass/window mask.

If I run high ph first, yes it would lower my drop count, but I would have to increase my low ph drop count.

I'm not sure if I really need to boost my alkaline, I was considering boosting just to give it that added punch, and to add an extra feature to my top wash.

I'm not running any debug.

 

[Greg Pack]

No Idea what product you are using but I think your principle to add alkalinity (via booster) to a second pass of high to overpower the first pass of low is sound. But you will get a better looking car (shinier, glass looks better) if you can find a way to put some low back on the car (low pH tri foam conditioner) to get rid of the alkaline film. If you can find a hi-low combo that works the residual alkalinity isn't an issue.

Saying "I'm titrating at X drops" without knowing the indicator, titrant, sample size, etc. doesn't tell us anything most of the time. . It's like saying "my radio is louder than yours because my volume level is at 6 and yours is at 4". I have three different alkaline titration kits right now and they produce widely different drop counts. Having said that,, I would expect a booster to be mostly comprised of common builders (sodium and/or potassium hydroxide)and would expect it to be a much more significant impact on your titration than what you are indicating. When I inject a booster it usually doubles or triples my alkalinity. Using my titration kit one of my presoaks unboosted might run 6-8 drops, and I will use bulk potassium hydroxide to boost it to 20 drops. This cost me less than .10 per car. But i'm still searching for the magic bullet that will clean at a lower level of alkalinity.

Side note: All us amateur car wash chemists should buy the simoniz titration kits from KR so we can share common numbers on here that we can compare.

 

[Roz]

Titration is interesting for comparing to another wash but there are variables such as the injector you are using (ChemFlex vs Rocket) and the color of the injector for flow rate.

At the end of the day I watch cars coming out of my Razors and Profile for maybe 10-15 vehicles. I look at them entering and exiting to see if I like the job. Never going to find that edge or exact right number. Just need to find the amount that consistently produces a shiny vehicle. I rather use too much product and have outstanding customer results than save a few cents.

I would not purchase a booster, just adjust the hi ph as it is easier to manage fewer chemicals you use/purchase.

 

[Greg Pack]

I would not purchase a booster, just adjust the hi ph as it is easier to manage fewer chemicals you use/purchase.

My reasoning is some products get too foamy if you just keep dialing them up. Foam in itself can actually impair the cleaning process- more is not necessarily better. It also makes rinsing more difficult.

 

[Rickdm1722]

My reasoning is some products get too foamy if you just keep dialing them up. Foam in itself can actually impair the cleaning process- more is not necessarily better. It also makes rinsing more difficult.

Titration is interesting for comparing to another wash but there are variables such as the injector you are using (ChemFlex vs Rocket) and the color of the injector for flow rate.

At the end of the day I watch cars coming out of my Razors and Profile for maybe 10-15 vehicles. I look at them entering and exiting to see if I like the job. Never going to find that edge or exact right number. Just need to find the amount that consistently produces a shiny vehicle. I rather use too much product and have outstanding customer results than save a few cents.

I would not purchase a booster, just adjust the hi ph as it is easier to manage fewer chemicals you use/purchase.

Yeah, I think I'm going to take the booster off. It's defiantly challenging trying to titrate the booster & Presoak when thier both running through a dual injector.

 

[Greg Pack]

Yeah, I think I'm going to take the booster off. It's defiantly challenging trying to titrate the booster & Presoak when thier both running through a dual injector.

You can take one of your injectors lines and flush it with water and put it in a bucket of water and connect to the injector. Put the other line in your high pH presoak. Run and collect a sample and get it in an acceptable titration range for cleaning. That ensures that you get the right amount of solvents and surfactants. Then, add your booster back and adjust as needed to get your drop counts up to the desired range.

 

[kentadel]

I started using a booster a couple months ago and use 2 Dosatrons plumbed in line together, drawing alkaline thru the 1st and booster thru the 2nd. Titrated the 1st on it's own and then the 2 together. FYI been using Chemquest and Synergy and like both company's chemicals.

 

[soapy]

Why not just use a dual injector rather than 2 dostrons? I use a dual injector with no tips but use a adjustable flowmeter on each product. That way I can look at the flow meter on each car if I want and know I am getting the right amount for established titrations at flow rates. I like that I can look at the flow meters and know I am applying the proper product without having to titrate each car.

 

[kentadel]

Why not just use a dual injector rather than 2 dostrons? I use a dual injector with no tips but use a adjustable flowmeter on each product. That way I can look at the flow meter on each car if I want and know I am getting the right amount for established titrations at flow rates. I like that I can look at the flow meters and know I am applying the proper product without having to titrate each car.

I do use Flowmeters on some of my self service pumpstands. In this situation it was easy for me to add booster and regulate it with my existing pumpstand.