Vacuum timer issues

[ACTcarwashlover]

Hey guys, it seems like my Vacuum timer died today
As The Motor contactor is buzzing (it’s an 24v ac contactor so something going wrong with The timer itself) what would cause the contactor to behave like this?

Could not attachVideo here as website says it’s too large

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Hey guys, it seems like my Vacuum timer died today
As The Motor contactor is buzzing (it’s an 24v ac contactor so something going wrong with The timer itself) what would cause the contactor to behave like this?

Could not attachVideo here as website says it’s too large

What kind of vacuum is that? That seems like a huge convoluted mess just to run a vacuum.

 

[Rudy]

That is indeed a big mess just to run a vacuum.

The way the contactor buzzes like that.....is likely one of two things.

1-A bad coil on the contactor.
2-More likely, low voltage to the contactor.

It's hard to see from the video, but does your transformer have (what appears) to be an 18v output.? I've never heard of such. 24v is much more common.

Somehow, you don't have enough "power" to pull the contactor into an energized state.

 

[Randy]

The guy is from Perth Australia, car wash equipment down there is a bit different than here in the US. He’s got a motor contractor issue. I do see a Blue and a Gray wire floating around in the video. Where do they go?

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

Oh, I’m actually from Canberra

And yes, The voltage is 24 V

What looks to be a “18 V terminal” is more likely the 400 V terminal from The transformer primary side as it’s a dual voltage transformer

Dan, that Vacuum is Italian made by the Ceccato company in the early 2000s

The blue and grey wire are actually Blue and Brown, and those run out to the Motor, I disconnected it just so that way the Motor isn’t constantly trying to start with The chattering contactor as I thought it would cause the contactor to burn out if it’s constantly pulsing a high amperage load,

I do know that if I do have a bad timer I do have a couple of spares I can test out

 

[2Biz]

And to think we do the same thing with a mercury relay and led7. That vac is over engineered!

 

[OurTown]

I think Rudy is on to something. 18V secondary on the transformer and a 24V coil on the contactor.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

I think Rudy is on to something. 18V secondary on the transformer and a 24V coil on the contactor.

Assuming this has worked in the past with this setup, I wonder if that is actually a contactor with a DC coil being driven by that board. With all the other over-engineering it wouldn't surprise me. That means that you have a board issue.

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

Assuming this has worked in the past with this setup, I wonder if that is actually a contactor with a DC coil being driven by that board. With all the other over-engineering it wouldn't surprise me. That means that you have a board issue.

nope, that’s actually AC as I did try the contactor directly to the transformer and it works completely fine, I’ll probably have to test the timer over the coming days out of the Vacuum just using a small 24 V transformer, and plus looking at the back of it I think I might’ve already found the issue as there is discolouration around what looks to be some sort of transistor or Mosfet, also it’s roughly the same size as most American timers found on equipment in the states

 

[Dan kamsickas]

nope, that’s actually AC as I did try the contactor directly to the transformer and it works completely fine, I’ll probably have to test the timer over the coming days out of the Vacuum just using a small 24 V transformer, and plus looking at the back of it I think I might’ve already found the issue as there is discolouration around what looks to be some sort of transistor or Mosfet, also it’s roughly the same size as most American timers found on equipment in the states

You definitely let the magic smoke out of something.

FYI, that Ginsan timer is probably at least 25 years old. Belongs in a museum or a trash can.

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

Yeah, that ginsan timer definitely belongs in a museum, and hopefully it it’s just that one particular component has even though the timer in the Vacuum is probably coming up 20 years old. If I could just replace the components that need to be replaced because the battery still works fine that stores the memory of the counter,

Essentially the timer that I’ve had issues with is the Italian version of the G S 87–255

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Yeah, that ginsan timer definitely belongs in a museum, and hopefully it it’s just that one particular component has even though the timer in the Vacuum is probably coming up 20 years old. If I could just replace the components that need to be replaced because the battery still works fine that stores the memory of the counter,

Essentially the timer that I’ve had issues with is the Italian version of the G S 87–255

So you have a separate timer in addition to all the other stuff? You're driving nails with a sledgehammer.

 

[2Biz]

A lot of us that have older vacs that didn't have displays, upgraded them to add a 24v transformer, an LED7 timer, and Mercury Relay to handle the load...One of the best retrofits I've done at the CW....The 24v tx and mercury relay live in the dome of the vac. Here is a thread I created on the retrofit I did...No way would I like having proprietory control boards in a vac or anywhere in a carwash!

(47) Old Doyle Vac LED7 Retrofit | Car Wash Forum

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

So you have a separate timer in addition to all the other stuff? You're driving nails with a sledgehammer.

oh no, that doesn’t have two timers, it just has the one I was using the other timer as a size reference that way you guys can get a rough sense of scale of the size of it

 

[ACTcarwashlover]

And oh wow, that is a really neat upgrade , it looks clean , it’s simple, and it works, it’ll probably be something that I will probably end up doing