central coin vac upgrade electrical questions

[PaulLovesJamie]

Its time to upgrade my central coin-vac system. Right now its on a simple intermatic timer, it vacs coins from all bays every 20 minutes. I want to upgrade it to run only when the bays are in use.

I have a couple old vac timers, I figure if I run all the coin pulse wires from my coin acceptors in to a timer and have that timer run my coin vac for 10 seconds I'd save some $ by not running the vac motors all night. Two questions I'm not sure about though:

a) Will the coin pulses from my coin acceptors be strong enough to register on both my bay timer and the coin vac timer? Yes, I know, I'll test it regardless ... but I'm concerned it'll work when I test it but cause intermittent issues when I'm not there if there isnt quite the right current.

b) Obviously I need to isolate the bays from one another, is a multiplexer like the idx mx8 what I'm looking for? Will that pass through pulses, or only continuous current? (Dont have a spare one of those to test with.)

 

[MEP001]

I've seen coin vac systems using regular IDX AT411-E vac timers that receive pulses from the bays and run the vac motors for a few seconds with each pulse. You could also use a PLC or programmable relay that would start the motors with each coin pulse and run them for a predetermined time after receiving the last pulse, which would cut down on the starting/stopping of the motors, or use it as a timer similar to your Intermatic function but set to prevent the motors from running if there has been no activity. I use the Siemens Logo which will accept eight inputs directly from the bays and keep them isolated, and they're not much more than one IDX vac timer or MX8.

 

[pitzerwm]

Why not throw another relay on the bay timer output and use that pulse to start the vac up timer. Or a small PLC, or a spare set of contacts on the motor?

 

[Dan kamsickas]

One of the most common misconceptions in this industry is that there is a "pulse" sent by the coin acceptor. There really isn't. If you were to measure across the coin input of a timer you will see a voltage (usually 5-12vdc). What happens is that voltage is shorted out by the output of the timer. That is what the timer sees as a "coin pulse". Depending on the make and model of the timer, either the loss or return of this voltage is what is registered (sinking or sourcing). Simply hooking the coin input of one timer to the coin input of another can cause feedback issues that can effect the operation of your bay equipment.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

One of the most common misconceptions in this industry is that there is a "pulse" sent by the coin acceptor...

Well, at least my ignorance is common.

Simply hooking the coin input of one timer to the coin input of another can cause feedback issues that can effect the operation of your bay equipment.

I suspected that might be the case, thats why I was hoping a multiplexer would solve that problem for me.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I've seen coin vac systems using regular IDX AT411-E vac timers that receive pulses from the bays and run the vac motors for a few seconds with each pulse.

The AT411E is exactly the timer I have sitting in a box. Based on what Dan says though, this could be risky...

Why not throw another relay on the bay timer output and use that pulse to start the vac up timer. Or a small PLC, or a spare set of contacts on the motor?

Right now my coin vac runs every 15 minutes, and it runs for 15 seconds. I dont want it to run all the time when a bay is in use - just for a few seconds after I've received a specified number of coins/tokens. Thats why I need a timer (or something) in between.


So far it sounds like I should just go to a plc. I was hoping to just use spare parts that are sitting around, you know, recycling, cost avoidance and all that.

 

[pitzerwm]

What about a couple of delay timer cubes, one set to wait 5 minutes after the motor runs, which triggers your timer or another 15 sec timer. Another thing is to put a clock on the vac motor that turns it off from 10PM to 6AM?

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Based on what Dan says though, this could be risky...

I use a GS-17 to split the coin signal to go to two places. One to the timer and one to a coin counter. Thats what its made for, a coin counter interface. I don't see why you couldn't use it for two timers instead of a timer and a coin counter. Wouldn't this eliminate Dan's concerns?

 

[Dan kamsickas]

I use a GS-17 to split the coin signal to go to two places. One to the timer and one to a coin counter. Thats what its made for, a coin counter interface. I don't see why you couldn't use it for two timers instead of a timer and a coin counter. Wouldn't this eliminate Dan's concerns?

I didn't want to suggest that because it is an item we sell. That would be treading a little to close to the rules of this forum.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Thanks - It sounds like the GS-17 may be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm still not sure though - If I put a GS-17 in each of my 5 bays and wire them all together into ONE timer for my coin vac system, will the GS-17 prevent a coin signal at 1 bay from effecting the wash timers at the other 4 bays?

Out of curiosity, what exactly is the electrical term for what the gs-17 does, it sounds to me like the equivalent of a check valve for electricity.

 

[Dan kamsickas]

Thanks - It sounds like the GS-17 may be exactly what I'm looking for. I'm still not sure though - If I put a GS-17 in each of my 5 bays and wire them all together into ONE timer for my coin vac system, will the GS-17 prevent a coin signal at 1 bay from effecting the wash timers at the other 4 bays?

Out of curiosity, what exactly is the electrical term for what the gs-17 does, it sounds to me like the equivalent of a check valve for electricity.

The GS17 was developed to split a coin signal into two, one for the timer and one for a mechanical coin counter, because if you hooked the coil of a mechanical counter to one of our 24vac timers it would cause feedback that would cause the timer to run on.

As for tying the out puts of 5 GS17s together, I don't think it would cause a problem with the bay timers. I can't recall ever having someone hook it up that way. The most common setup for a coin vac system is one timer per bay.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Thanks Dan.