I'm in uncharted territory...

[Bubbles Galore]

I am looking at purchasing 2 washes right now, one is a 6 bay self serve and the other is a 110' tunnel with Hanna equipment. The tunnel is "old" but all the hanna equipment was installed new in 2002.

Here's my problem, the owner ran it from 02-05 and then shut down to pursue other interests. At this point, he is leasing month to month to someone who is running it like sh*t (I can make that assumption because I took my truck through the tunnel and it came out dirtier and scratched than it was going in).

He gave me P/L statements and car counts from 02-05 (roughly $150k gross with about 30k cars), but I am sure that those numbers aren't representative of what they are doing today.

While still negotiable, he said that he would give me the 6 bay self serve and the 110' tunnel for $400k.

Here are my questions for you tunnel guys. What kind of assumptions can I make about any of the info I posted? I don't think I can get accurate car counts or income statements from the current owner. If I had to do a complete rehab of the tunnel, what would that cost me? I'm trying to make some educated guesses, but I am completely out of my element here.

 

[Greg Pack]

It really depends on the extent of the package the guy put in in 2002. 2002 was "pre- express" and there was a different mentality amongst tunnel mfgs that prepping was a necessity and that a lot of the cleaning was done with manual prepping. So from an express standpoint your equipment package could be very deficient. But if you're going to continue the same format it may be enough, especially if the cars are coming out pretty dry.

Easiest thing to do is grab a sonny's catalog and start browsing. Sonny's online content is also excellent. Many expresses were putting in 400-500K equipment packages, but this is obviously overkill for a low volume site. A Sonny's "spyder" is a lot of bang for the buck. I would look at the equipment in one of their extreme packages, too.

A few years ago a partner and I bought a tunnel for about 175, gutted it, and converted it to a psuedo "mini express" format. I think we had right at 500K in it. Problem was it was an traditional exterior tunnel with manual prepping since the 70s and it went over like a lead ballon. Customers had been coming there for years and were expecting full manual prepping for $5. They demanded their wheels be scrubbed, even if they were already clean. We broke down and started prepping. Volume started picking up and I sold out to my partner, who in turn sold it to a third party. Well, then an express built a block down the road. It was a nice new well- lit facility with about twenty free vac lanes. It took ANY surplus cars right out of the already overbuilt market. He's got probably 1.5M but I think he's doing less than probably 5Kcars per month, but he's got the most volume, so I guess technically he's the winner. No one in the market is doing as well as they like but that old tunnel is the clear loser, currently washing less then 1K cars per month.

Just a little bedtime story for those looking to buy an old tunnel......

 

[Earl Weiss]

I disagree with the prior post on many levels. I am not sure what you mean by "Complete rehab." I have taken over 3 beaten down tunnels and one 8 bay SS, all with most equip more than 10 years old. Some equip like a conveyor may corrrode beyond repair. Other stuff typicaly can be ressurected with things like Bearings, shafts, Cores, cloth and motors as needed. This can be done a lot cheaper than ripping everything out and starting over. Equip mfd in 2002 should give you a clean car with no prepping if you are planning an EE, especialy with a peak volume of 30K cars and a 110 foot tunnel you can run a really slow line. As volume picks up you can always do things to improve production speed like adding another set of wraps , more blowers, high pressure or whatever.

You will need to promote like heck to overcome the bad vibes. This can be done with giveaways, signage etc.
#1 produce a clean car for a value. A close 2nd is an attractive facility.

For the SS, the same applies. Most equip can be ressurected by replacing parts. Floor heat being excepted if the underground is broken.

One snake in the grass I ran into was pits not having been pumped for years. This was $5000 I did not plan on spending.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for the responses guys!

I'm sure you can tell that I am not real familiar with this type of operation, but can someone explain the difference between a "full serve" and an exterior express? I think an EE would allow me to keep my labor costs at a minimum, but I would need arches and such for presoak to basically replace the prep work that was done manually before, correct?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Thanks for the responses guys!

I'm sure you can tell that I am not real familiar with this type of operation, but can someone explain the difference between a "full serve" and an exterior express? I think an EE would allow me to keep my labor costs at a minimum, but I would need arches and such for presoak to basically replace the prep work that was done manually before, correct?

Thanks for all the help!

You may be able to adapt existing arches. I have put Struts on existing single product application arches so that they handle 3 or more products. Adding SS struts with SS U Bolts and Schedule 40 PVC is simple.

 

[DavidM]

Full Serve and EE typically refer to two major components. Express Exterior is minimal labor with no prepping and no towel drying or interior cleaning component. Full service can include prepping but definitely includes an option to get the interior clean. Flex serve is a variation on the same theme. There are as many variations of both EE and FS as there are operators.

The information you shared suggests a $5 average per car. I assume that this is some type of exterior only. Typically a wash with interior cleaning will average $12-$25+ per car taking into account a million other factors. Exterior only can average $5 - $12+ a car again with a million variables.

 

[rph9168]

Without knowing more about the site layout it sounds like you will probably be best off with a flex serve arrangement. It depends on where the vacs are located, the flow of the on site traffic and possible location for self service vacuuming and site egress. Would really have to either have a site plan or more information to be more precise.

As far as the equipment goes I agree with Earl. I doubt that you would need a complete rehab with new equipment. Replacing friction media and hardware on the arches and brushes should not be that expensive. Look out for the hiddens like the pit issue. Also consider what cosmetic work that might need to be done. You might also have to add a pay station which can be rather expensive.

If you have a local distributor you trust they should be able to help with some of the estimates and layout issues. If I can help just PM me.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

A few points:

-the lot has 99' of road frontage but is about 3.5 times deeper than that.

-the building sits perpendicular to the road and is biased to one side of the property.

-there are three self serve vacs that line the building, and look as though they are rarely used.

-for an exterior express setup, I would need to focus on eliminating the manual labor with the use of a paystation and chemical preparation? I would assume that an attendant would still need to be present to be able to assist customers and guide them onto the track?

-if pursuing the EE route, would it make sense to offer free vacs at the site and possibly go with a central vac system?

-this site does have a detailing bay that I could offer additional services, but am not sure of the setup as I have only done a drive-by.

I appreciate the help guys. I'm always up for a challenge, I just want to make sure its possible to come out on top in the end!

 

[Earl Weiss]

We operte 4 EE . No paystations. You may or may not want to spend the $ initialy with the prior highest volume it had I see no reason to at this time. Simply have the guide on man be the cashier. There are some that operate without a guide on man but those operations typicaly have someone on site for other functions like a c store or gas in case something goes wrong. Since you need someone anyway, let them be the cashier.

If you want to go the free vac route keep the vacs you have . If you want unrestricted access simply instal a push button on the face plate to trigger the timer. If you only want to oiffer free to wash customers you can swap out the coin mech for a dual coin acceptor, which takes tokes and quarters and give all wash customers a token.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

So if EE is the way to go (which it sounds like in my case), what types of additions do I need to make to eliminate the manual prepping of the vehicle? Is it just a couple of low pressure arches?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

hmmm....just found out that it is not on city water, it's on a well....

thoughts?

 

[Earl Weiss]

hmmm....just found out that it is not on city water, it's on a well....

thoughts?

Well... I think tons of stuff, flow rates? Possibility it will run dry. Water quality and effect on cleaning, need to treat / soften and related costs. What about sewer?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

It has city sewer...

 

[Earl Weiss]

So if EE is the way to go (which it sounds like in my case), what types of additions do I need to make to eliminate the manual prepping of the vehicle? Is it just a couple of low pressure arches?

Difficult to answer since I am not clear of the overall setup. The more equipment you have the less you need to worry about Prepping.

There are a bunch of answers to this query. Some use a single pre soak. Some use a 2 step pre soak. I have lots of equip, (anywhere from Double, Triple or quadruple coverage on many surfaces) so I just use a pre soak followed by a soap foamer.

But I also have the ability to turn on a high pressure pump for problem cars and times. (Basicaly took the old prep gun line(s) and ran it to the arch. I also use reclaim water to Blast wheels and undercarriage. I have a hot water manifold on the arch as well for extremely cold weather.

 

[Waxman]

sure your well could run dry but you could also save tons of $$ and use that savings for: more soap, more psi, more equipment, etc.

if the wash has run for a long period of time on well water why would it become a problem?

I see it as a bonus but I would feel more secure with city water as a backup.

 

[Greg Pack]

Before jumping further I would get area/site info.

 

[Ric]

I'm not yet sold on the express exterior in the northern snow belt climate. Sure you can get the "skin" of the car clean but you still have "interstate icebergs" hanging off the fender wells and rocker panels. That's not "clean" to me. I operated a tunnel in MI for 25 years and manual prepping in the winter was the only way to to get of that crap consistently.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for the suggestions! I talked to the owner last night and I am going to head up there on Sunday and get a run through of the place so I can better evaluate it. I will post some pictures too.

 

[Earl Weiss]

sure your well could run dry but you could also save tons of $$ and use that savings for: more soap, more psi, more equipment, etc.

if the wash has run for a long period of time on well water why would it become a problem?

I see it as a bonus but I would feel more secure with city water as a backup.

Why would it becom a problem?
1. Highest volume of 30K cars was apparently several years earlier. In various parts of the country water tables were dropping. Unknown if well was able to handle 30K properly. Unknown if it can handle moree than 30K if plan is to increase volume. Unknown what types of voulme swings are expected. 30k a year is less than 100 cars day average, but whxse to say what happens on the day you need it most like when you are trying to wash 5 tiies the average volume. Or even a couple of busy days in a row.
2. Some well water can be very hard. The savings in initial cost might be countered by money spent needing to treat it.

 

[Ross wash]

no prepping

I tried an arch from Tommy's that actually has 5 applications on one arch, it seems to be doing pretty well. covers fronts, backs, wheels and body. different chemical ratios for different area depending on what needs more attention. And it looks good, i see a lot of people using the pvc but i just dont think it looks professional (thats why i took mine out).