An Ounce of Prevention

[smokun]

Precision Speaker Communication

My suggestion about a headset w/controlled speaker utilizes a precision-targeted speaker aimed at the driver-side for controlled communication. I've seen it and heard it, and it isn't offensive.

The attendant usually is giving arm motion directions and guides the customer with reassuring commentary. The proper system is designed for verbal communication, not music. The headset frees up the attendant's hands & arms and the headset enables the attendant to establish eye-contact with the customer. It works great.

A talented carwash attendant can make the entire experience entertaining and appreciated. As time permits, product merchandising can also be presented. It gives the attendant an opportunity to engage and THANK the customers for stopping in... and INVITING them to come back soon!

It's just one more opportunity to distinguish your carwash, and set it apart from your competition. The optimum would be to have a prolific service advisor on point.

 

[smokun]

"In an exterior wash, except for the conveyor moving the vehicle, the customer essentially has care custody and control over their vehicle."

Bogus. Closer examination of business law indicates that as soon as a carwash accepts a customer's vehicle (either an attendant starts vacuuming a vehicle once the driver exits in a full-service wash or upon accepting the vehicle for a process such as being loaded onto a conveyor, and thus surrendering c,c,&c), the carwash has essentially accepted "care, custody and control" of all liability until the vehicle is returned to the owner, and the owner accepts it. That condition essentially views the customer riding through as a spectator in an exterior carwash. Once the driver is discharged from the process, in the case of a ride-through process, and takes back and accepts full control of the vehicle, is the carwash thereby released from control.

It layman's terms: While under the care, custody & control of a business, if you break it, you bought it.

Our research has indicated that once the vehicle is on your exterior-carwash conveyor, it is under your control. Flyers, signs, verbal cautions act as a good-faith effort, but does not automatically absolve your liability. Instead of waiving the legal responsibility, it simply offers grounds for civil argument... which often ignores logic.

By all means, do your own research. I've offered ours. Hope this helps.

 

[Earl Weiss]

"In an exterior wash, except for the conveyor moving the vehicle, the customer essentially has care custody and control over their vehicle."

Bogus. Closer examination of business law indicates that as soon as a carwash accepts a customer's vehicle (either an attendant starts vacuuming a vehicle once the driver exits in a full-service wash or upon accepting the vehicle for a process such as being loaded onto a conveyor, and thus surrendering c,c,&c), the carwash has essentially accepted "care, custody and control" of all liability until the vehicle is returned to the owner, and the owner accepts it. That condition essentially views the customer riding through as a spectator in an exterior carwash. Once the driver is discharged from the process, in the case of a ride-through process, and takes back and accepts full control of the vehicle, is the carwash thereby released from control.


By all means, do your own research. I've offered ours. Hope this helps.

Well, since it is standard practice in the legal profession to provide citations to authority used to substantiuate a legal position so both the opposition and trier of fact can use that as a starting point for their research please provide citations substantiating the above. A lot of legal authority is availaable on line these days.

 

[smokun]

Earl...

Since we're not attorneys, all I can do agree with your premise and rely on guidance offered by various sources readily available to all on the web. Most of our information came from either insurance industry sources or legal advisors, and we've used them for guidance on issues like this. I'm told to suggest the 2010 Edition of the New Appleman Insurance Law Practice Guide.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Earl...

Since we're not attorneys, all I can do agree with your premise and rely on guidance offered by various sources readily available to all on the web. Most of our information came from either insurance industry sources or legal advisors, and we've used them for guidance on issues like this. I'm told to suggest the 2010 Edition of the New Appleman Insurance Law Practice Guide.

The last thing I would ever do, and I would caution others to do the same is accept an "Insurance Industry " source as being authoritative when it comes to providing legal authority, without first checking their purported authoritative sources. Such sources have a vested interest in promoting certain positions.

 

[smokun]

We agree. We routinely check with multiple sources inside and apart from the insurance industry... as well as independent legal firms. Keep in mind that insurance companies have a vested interest in protecting their clients, be they businesses or individuals; essentially both sides of a conflict. Nevertheless, a well-grounded research uses multiple resources with a clear understanding of confidentiality, given our independent consultancy.

 

[Earl Weiss]

...........Keep in mind that insurance companies have a vested interest in protecting their clients, be they businesses or individuals; essentially both sides of a conflict. .............. .

I caution all that this is a very dangerous premis to operate under and I caution all to do so at their peril, or as Bill C. stated "Caveat Emptor".

First, foremost and always the insurance company's priority is protecting themselves / their bottom line. Secondly, and sometimes a distant second is their client's / insureds.

How soon we forget the well publicised Insurance industry Hurricane Katrina fiasco as well publicised example.

 

[smokun]

Get A Clear Understanding of coverage BEFORE, NOT AFTER!

My comment referred to EACH SIDE of an issue ultimately will focus on someone paying for damages. Find out where you stand if ultimately you need to contact your insurance agent about an issue.

Remember the old adage of ASSUME: Making an ASS out of U and ME

The customer will have his or her story, and the carwash will have theirs. Consequently, if you wish to appreciate both sides of an arguable position, then why not appreciate knowing what their respective position is on "CARE, CUSTODY AND CONTROL"?

Doesn't it make sense for a carwash operator to ask their insurance carrier what their position is on the exposure? That's why you pay premiums for garage-keeper's liability. Same is true when dealing with other losses such as stolen vehicles, equipment damage caused by a driver's out-of-control misconduct, etc.

If you recognize the exposure is yours, you'll know enough to negotiate a settlement on-the-spot and avoid getting your carrier involved, thus safeguarding your premium stability. My point: Knowledge is power. What you don't know... can, in fact, hurt you!

My original reply was cautioning Bill about his understanding of "care, custody and control". Nothing more.

 

[pitzerwm]

Steve is right about knowledge, and I agree that you need to know where you stand. In this case of stopping causing a rear end collision, IMO cameras first, so there isn't an argument that they did step on the brake, and something that proves that you made an effort to educate the customer is cheap and worth it.

 

[briteauto]

Bill C. -

I like your idea about the handout. I also like the idea about a coupon or something - even if it is seasonal, or only on certain days.

Around here, we have a chain of about 10 Delta Sonics. They pack the cars very tight - much tighter than I would reccommend. They have no wraps or side wheels, just mitters.

Anyway - there are signs in the tunnel that say "Don't worry, if cars get too close, conveyor will automatically stop." I have no idea how this is done. I do not frequent their wash, but I do occassionally like to check out the competition and have wondered what they do.

Something like this would not help if a customer accelerates, as I am sure it would not catch it quickly enough in acceleration. However, I could see it helping if someone hits the break, and you have a car being carried at conveyor speed into a "parked" car.

I should stop by one day and ask a manager - seeing this post got me curious as to what they do.

Mike

 

[Chiefs]

So Steve, If a customer hits the brakes amd jumps a roller after being told verbally through signage and handouts not to and causes an accident, it is the car wash's fault? If while wiping off their dash etc., they bump their vehicle into drive and take off and ram the car in front of them it is the car wash's fault? If a customer turns the wheel and jumps the track and fails to try to let anyone know there is a problem after being repeatedly warned to do so again throuhg siganage and handouts and then compound their idiocy by putting the vehicle in drive and driving through the car wash and runs into equipment, that is my fault? With all due respect Steve, bull****!

If a customer willfully or accidentally disregards all safety instructions, I'll be damned if I am going to accept responsibility? I have to accept responsibility for when I do something stupid. I am not accepting responsibility for other's stupidity.

 

[Waxman]

It seems obvious to me that the difference in perception here is; a person who owns and operates a carwash and one who perhaps does not.

 

[smokun]

MURPHY'S LAW #99: People Lie!

Bill, I suggest that you contact your insurance agent. Getting ****ed off at me and venting may make you feel better for the moment, but I'm simply a messenger responding to the commentary.

We've all probably had situations where negligence has caused damage, and insurance companies have negotiated with one another for a resolution. But, most of us realize that getting your insurance company involved potentially leads to a premium spike... or worse.

The alternative is to negotiate directly with the customer, who has the option of either reaching a satisfactory resolution with the carwash operator... or seeking satisfaction in civil court (usually small claims). Or, they simply may go to their insurance company who in turn will contact your insurance company. That's where the "care,custody & control" impact is levied, which is why it pays to get input from insurers (before the fact).

Courts typically mediate and dole out retribution. Unless the customer acknowledges unintentional accidental misconduct, the carwash runs the risk of tacit acceptance of care, custody and control simply by accepting the vehicle into the process.

Unless the customer insists that the devil made him do it, you've likely wasted both time and money. Nevertheless, some judges actually swim against the current and embrace the business' logic of customers being forewarned.

Continue to rant, if it makes you feel better, Bill. My input was simply to offer balance to your assumption... without malice.

 

[Chiefs]

Steve, just last year, another customer jumped the track, then tried driving through and ran into the rinse arches causing some $1,800 in damages to their vehicle and about $2,400 in damages to my equipment and lost revenue. The insurance company for the customer called me and wanted resititution. I took a slightly different approach and filed a small claims case against the customer for the aforementioned $2,400. The customer's insurance company blinked and said that they would drop the claim if I dropped the case. Never, did they contact my insurance company as I refused to give them that information. I do not pay for other's stupidity under any circumstances. For other operators, do not be intimidated by insurance companies when you have a solid leg to stand on.

Everyone wants someone else to be responsible for their own stupidity today. The only way for a vehicle to jump the track is customer misconduct and willful disregard for instriuctions. If I perform due diligence in warning customers and informing them of their responsibility if something goes wrong as they go through and something does and they fail to follow those instructions/warning, they will have to take me to court every time.

That's how I conduct my business and in the 25 years I've riunning this place, I've never had a judgement rendered against me. If you are going to be a pussycat in this business, you will be eaten alive and out of business in short order. Knowing your system and what it is and is not capable of is oyur best defense against unreasonable damage claims.

 

[pitzerwm]

I hope you didn't drop your case, Chief!!!

 

[Earl Weiss]

....................
Or, they simply may go to their insurance company who in turn will contact your insurance company. ................

As Bill states, they can't go after your insurance if you don't give the info.

When asked for my insurance info on BS claims. I refuse to give it.

Even had people call the cops who usualy jsut tell them it's a civil matter. Occasionaly a cop asks for insurance info and seem surprised when i refuse to give it.

Have had judges rule for and against me. One said "Oh, I know how those car washes can throw you out of the track and throw you back in again".

I even bring a check to court in case they rule against m now. I pay any ruling instantly so no adverse judgement appears of record.

 

[Washmee]

As Bill states, they can't go after your insurance if you don't give the info.

When asked for my insurance info on BS claims. I refuse to give it.

Even had people call the cops who usually just tell them it's a civil matter. Occasionaly a cop asks for insurance info and seem surprised when i refuse to give it.

Have had judges rule for and against me. One said "Oh, I know how those car washes can throw you out of the track and throw you back in again".

I even bring a check to court in case they rule against m now. I pay any ruling instantly so no adverse judgement appears of record.

Same strategy here Earl. When someone tries to make a bogus claim, I tell them to make the claim on their insurance if the feel they deserve some kind of compensation. I've had a few followups from insurance companies after incidents like these, but after explaining my side of the story I have never payed a dime on any of those claims. The only time I have been sued was once when a customer tried to extort a couple of hundred extra $$ above the estimates he provided to repair a broken antenna. After his attorney was contacted by mine, the case was dropped and he received the $$ he was due, not a dime more.