ideas on upgrading t&e cleaner
- Thread starter MudMoney
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MEP001
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Does your system mix air with the tire cleaner? If you don't, there are two advantages to doing it. One, you can increase the strength of the chemical without actually using more because the air displaces a lot of liquid. Two, you can increase the pressure which makes it clear the water from the hose faster (Again without using more chemical). You can use a needle valve on the liquid to limit the flow.
If you want something really fast, I used a programmable relay to purge the bay hose with air after any function through the wand is used. It takes tire cleaner or presoak about 4 seconds to reach the tip, and no water comes out before it.
If you want something really fast, I used a programmable relay to purge the bay hose with air after any function through the wand is used. It takes tire cleaner or presoak about 4 seconds to reach the tip, and no water comes out before it.
Earl Weiss
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We use the Air assist with Tire Cleaner and pre soak. Aside from faster delivery there is also a slight foaming action.
I checked the pressure the other day on my Presoak and Tire cleaner, it's running at 175psi. I use a Procon 2507 pump with 1/2 HP motor, with a little air mixed in as it goes out to the bay. I never timed it yet to see how long it takes to get out to the bay, I guess I need to do that. But it's pretty fast.
Bubbles Galore
Active member
I'm going to be building a purge system for my bays this winter and with the initial testing, I am going to include a function similar to what Mep stated he is doing for all of our bays. Our wash has the quickest delivery time for lo-pressure functions compared to the other washes around town, but I want to make it better and I'm sure that I can do that with an air purge. Good luck and let us know what you come up with.
pitzerwm
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Earl Weiss
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OK, color me clueless as to how this would help. Of course I do not know if all systems are like mine.
Each bay has a manifold on the roof directly above the bay. High and low pressure lines all feed into this manifold with a check valve between the low pressure lines and the manifold to keep the high pressure from going back down the low pressure lines. These LP lines include Air for the pre Soak, and Tire Cleaner assist, Pre Soak, Tire Cleaner, Wax. The HP pump in the equipment room draws from a fresh water tank and if HP soap is chosen then a valve opens allowing the pump to also draw the soap with the fresh water.
So, my point is that only from the manifold to the tip of the gun is there any specific product. It would seem irrelevant where the flo jet was located since the line to the manifold is always filled with the LP solution. Are you thinking of saving the time it takes for the Flo Jet to create enough line pressure to open the check valve? It wouldn't seem like you are saving much and you have the issue of the pump having to draw solution from a long ways away.
I can see how guys pushing 175 PSI would chase all the old solution from the line to the gun quicker than a flo jet pushing 60 PSI. Can't help but wonder if you are also then using double the amount of product. (I guess double because tripling the pressure will not neccessarily triple the volume)
Say the hose length from the manifold to the tip is 30 feet. I really wonder what the diffference is between.
A. Clearing the line with 175 psi vs 60 of liquid or 60 PSI liquid with 20 PSI air assist.
B. Having the line emptied with an air purge (Don't you still have to wait for the line to empty and refill? )
Earl Weiss
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Now, since my HP soap mixesin the equip room this has the longest travel depending on how far away the bay is. So chngeover rinse / HP soap is the longest. I could see adding another LP line at the manifold with the HP soap to mix with HP water there but it could back down the line. Perhaps it would need some sort of HP venturi at the manifold.
Jeff_L
Well-known member
Where does your line from your flojet T into you HP line? In the equipment room or above the bay with a manifold? If the former, then you need a manifold above your bay so you are as close to the wand as possible with the chemical. If you're going into a manifold above the bay already, I'm not certain any one way will gain efficiency over the other to get the chemical from the manifold down to the wand.
By the way, define "speed up". Are you taking 4 seconds now and want to get it to 2 seconds? Or are you taking 30 seconds for the product to change over?
My Presoak/Tire Cleaner manifold and solenoid valves are in the equipment room. I’ve got 2 hoses, one Presoak and one Tire Cleaner that are full of chemical that go out to each of the booms in the bays, these hoses are full of chemical all the time. When a customer selects Presoak or Tire Cleaner it only has to travel 15 feet or so before it comes out of the wand. I wonder how much water there is in a 3/8” H.P hose that’s 15 feet long? How long should it take to push this water out of the hose?
MudMoney
Well-known member
Jeff, my change over time runs between 22 to 30 seconds. Starts out a dribble then pressurizes to 55 psi.
I appreciate the input and what other members t& e systems are doing.
Thanks to all of you for your input.
I appreciate the input and what other members t& e systems are doing.
Thanks to all of you for your input.
MEP001
Well-known member
That's why I like the air/liquid mixture so well. I run the tire cleaner at 80 PSI and the air 5 PSI above it, with needle valves at both. That lets me adjust the air down to a small flow while getting 85 PSI behind it to speed it to the gun. The needle valve on the liquid lets me regulate it to a very slow flow, so I can run the product three times as strong as recommended and not use a large quantity of product. I only set up the air purge because I already had the programmable relay hooked up to the common air solenoid, so I only had to add a couple things to the program to make it purge. Tire cleaner/presoak/air all tee together at one common check valve, and with the air set just above the liquid pressure there's never any liquid pushing back in the air line. It also keeps the flow consistent; when air pressure is much lower than the liquid, only liquid gets to the gun with the trigger released and when it's pulled the customer gets only liquid until it clears again. Mine stays consistent.Earl Weiss said:
Jeff_L
Well-known member
22-30 seconds seems like a long time for someone to wait for a switchover in chemicals. Where is your manifold to push the chemical into the HP line?
Someone also mentioned about a 3/8" HP hose. I used to have that in my washes, but have since swapped them out for 1/4" hoses. This equates to less water in the line to clear out.
MEP, are you saying that all 3 lines (pre soak, tire cleaner, and air) each have their own lines running to each bay from your equipment room into a manifold above each bay with only one check valve before they are connected to the high pressure line? If this is true, how do you prevent the pre soak and or tire cleaner from pushing back into each other depending on which one is being used or is the amount negligible?
Also, you had mentioned in past posts you air purge the line. If a customer is on a high pressure function and then switches to a low pressure function right away, how do you get the switchover to low pressure in such a short time frame (4 sec)?
Do you air purge the high pressure hose from the manifold to the gun each time the bay is not being used?
How long of a run is it from the low pressure manifold to the tip of the gun?
What brand tire cleaner do you use and at what ratio?
I have tried all different setups for dispensing low pressure pre soak / tire cleaner without these type of results mentioned.
Thanks in advance Mike C.
MEP001
Well-known member
Yes, three lines, one check valve. The liquid pumps "dead-head" on the solenoids so there's no way for one liquid to back up into the other. The air pressure is 5 PSI higher than the liquid, which stops any product from entering the air line. It also protects against failure due to a bad check valve because high-pressure will just bleed off through the air regulator and nothing gets damaged.mjc3333 said:
It doesn't, but very few people do that. At least with the setup as I have it, there's only about a 12-second changeover.mjc3333 said:
The high-pressure or spot-free will trigger the blow-down. If someone uses soap then foam brush, the wand will clear while they're using the brush.mjc3333 said:
20 feet, including a 1-foot piece of stainless pipe and a "swivel saver" hose, all 3/8" ID.mjc3333 said:
I used to run Scotch Plaid minty tire cleaner, recommended 64:1, I ran it 24:1. I now mix it with their powdered tire cleaner to remove brake dust better, but the liquid tire is still being applied equivalent to 36:1.mjc3333 said:
Bubbles Galore
Active member
Mep, with that timer you set up for me with the triple foam, can a purge system be added to that also? I would definitely like to set something up like this.