Tieing Self Serves into reclaim system

[Buzzie8]

I am finally making a long overdue investment into a reclaim system. I am battling a bit with my supplier about whether to tie my 2 self serve bays into the system. I feel strongly that the self serves should collect and use reclaim water on everything but the rinse and the spot free. He says to use all fresh water on the self serves and do not not collect it because of the chance of major contamination of the system. Obviously, i will be tieing my two in-bay automatics. Anyone have a good or bad experience one way or another. Also, I would like to collect rain water as well to reduce water bills beyond what the reclaim will save. Good idea? ( I am pretty sure local water and sewer authority allows it if I use a deduct meter) Thanks in advance for your input.
Buzzie8

PS highest water bill ever for March 2010, $7100

 

[mjc3333]

I had a reclaim system put in brand new in 1991 at my one self-serve washes. It was an eternal nightmare!! The first 6 months were great, after that it was all down hill. The water ended up smelling so bad I almost lost my entire business. Once I disconnected the reclaim, it took me 4 years to gain back 60% of my customer base. The cars would come out clean, but would smell like a sewage treatment plant. Then the cars ended up with actual road salt residue during the winter. The chemicals ate everything in the equipment room. All the copper is a brown green. Any exposed black pipe is rusted. Even the electronics in the equipment room started to fail. IMO, reclaim flat out does not work properly in a true self serve location. You absolutely have NO control over what is being washed down the drain. Your distributor is right, do not hook up the self serve bays, you will regret it.

On the other hand, the IBA's are a definite. Depending on your type of wash, you are looking at 60 to over 100 gallons of water for each car washed. The numbers add up quickly. The IBA's are in a controlled environment. Depending on you door setup, most people are not going to dump anything in the IBA, it would take too much effort. The SS bays are another story. Think about it, 5 quarts of oil, or motor home sewage down the drain. Paint, sheet rock debris, certain oils in the mud from mudders. Too many unknowns. You also can't control what function the customer would end with. For me it's a 60-40 split on rinse and HP wax. The only thing you could reclaim would be HP soap/water. Foam brush, tire cleaner, pre soak etc. do not use enough water to justify using reclaim in them. That only leaves HP soap/water. Customers only use it 35-40 % of all the cycles. You would only be reclaiming that much. 2 bay SS, not worth the hassle.

Investigate, talk to other owners, talk to as many reclaim companies as possible BEFORE you jump in for the IBA's.

MY reclaim SS experience cost me $40,000 back in 1991. All that's left are the 4 tanks in the ground. No savings, just headaches.

 

[Buzzie8]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am assuming the technology has improved dramatically since 1991. Ozonator should reduce smell. Hate to chance it though for what might be minimal savings.

 

[rph9168]

Even with today's technology I would be reluctant to put SS water into the reclaim. You can pretty much predict what you get in the reclaim from your IBA but in a SS you can expect more oil residue and other foreign matter that you have little or no control over. There is no way you should use reclaim in your SS as has already been stated.

 

[mac]

I've connected a couple of self serve washes to reclaim but it definitely is not for everyone. The only product I used reclaim on is high pressure soap. Do not even THINK about using it on the low pressure products. Buzzie, the technology hasn't really improved that much over the years. Most systems still use ozone for odor control. I suspect that is what caused the problems with mjc3333 in his equipment room. Think of it as Chinese drywall on an industrial scale. Some companies , such as Catec, have improved the ozone production part and offer extended warranties on their ozone units. Addiny any reclaim to your place will require more attention to daily operations. It can get out of hand faster than you could imagine. That said, using it for touchless automatics does make sense. It's just not plug and play technology.

 

[Greg Pack]

I don't know what your water/sewer bill is but there are a ton of reclaim systems out in the field that are turned off. Saving on water bills sounds good on the surface. Plan on spending more on the electricity and cleaning your walls more often. In the summer, the water stunk up the joint. I may have left some money on the table by not using it, but it wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[Eric H]

Wasn't there an issue with Legioneers Disease at SSCWs using reclaim in Australia last year?

 

[Randy]

There are 5 Reclaim units in my area that I know of that are turned off. The quality of the water leaves a lot to be desired, bad smelling water, damaged pumps etc. The only reclaim system that is still running has someone there 8 hours a day making adjustments (babysitting) the system, not very cost effective. BEWARE! Ozone is highly corrosive and will damage plumbing, electronic components if vented into your equipment room. In high concentrations it is health hazard, if you can smell it your being over exposed. Mjc3333 that is the problem you have with black pipes and damaged electronics, to much Ozone. I don’t think I’d ever consider installing a reclaim system at a S/S car wash.

 

[captain cw]

Stay away from the self serve bays. With a water bill that high, it sounds like a great idea for your autos. Good luck!

 

[mjc3333]

Yes to all of the above!!

Ozone generator, chlorine, coagulation chemicals.

The list went on and on! The only way it would work half a@@ was watching it every day three of four times, testing and retesting 7 days a week . Even then it did nothing to prevent the catastrophic problems with foreign matter entering the drain system.

Again, do your homework for the IBA's BEFORE you spend a dime!

Don't do what so many others have done including me.

 

[Buzzie8]

Wow, what a dilemma. $7100 monthly water/sewage bills. Manufacturers and vendors who swear that the technology works and is vastly improved, the major trade organization (ICWA) planning whole conventions around water conservation and reclaim, and a bunch of operators who say that I shouldn't do it. Maybe someone can send me a private message, (or public message for that matter) for the name of a system they installed, that they are not babysitting, and that is working. I pretty much ruled out the SS bays right now, but am a seriously considering ruling out my IBA's as well.

 

[MEP001]

No one's said you should rule out the IBA's. Your question was whether you should tie in your self-serve bays, and those replies have advised against that.

 

[rph9168]

No one's said you should rule out the IBA's. Your question was whether you should tie in your self-serve bays, and those replies have advised against that.

I agree. While I did not recommend it for self service there are several reclaim units out that do a good job for IBA's.

 

[Buzzie8]

There are certain inferences that need to be made from the posts. If the ozonators are messing up equipment rooms, electronics, or the systems are making the location smell like a sewage plant, I am not sure why it would matter if you are connecting the sewage pipes from the SS bays and/or the automatics. The inference I gathered is that many operators that have tried reclaim have systems that are sitting dormant. If this only holds true for operators who have tried reclaim for SS bays then I stand corrected. I realize the contamination that can come in SS bays but many of the posts made inferences that reclaims are not effective as a water saving solution and that the systems are problematic.

 

[Kevin James]

Buzz, I think you should go ahead and put the whole car wash on reclaim and then report back on how much you are saving. With a $7100 water bill you must be a very busy car wash. How many gallons or cubic feet does $7100 buy in your city or is that the combined total of both water and sewer? One thing I would do is to get a performance guarantee from the Reclaim equipment manufacture that his equipment will perform to your satisfaction or you get a full refund and he reconnects to the sewer system. Which system are you thinking about?

 

[Greg Pack]

Well, I missed the $7100 bill. I probably would be looking hard at reclaim too. I guess it is all relative. I wouldn't sweat it if I was grossing 50K per month. but if I was grossing 20K per month that would be another matter.

I assume you have gotten the low hanging fruit- RO recapture and tweaked your IBAs I cut water usage on my wizards by almost 30% by doing that.

Just get written guarantees from your distributor/mfg that they will refund if the unit fails to perform.

 

[Buzzie8]

It is fortunate that I have a busy wash. The $7100 bill for last month was my highest bill ever but it was also a record month. My local water authority was fined millions of dollars by some of their past practices and they have passed this on to the community, hence some of the highest water and sewage rates on the east coast. I was ready to move forward with Pur Water but another system was proposed to me today (I can't remember the name but will post later). I am capturing some RO reject. What other water conservation steps can I take on my water wizards? Any thoughts on Pur Water.

 

[Tom Thumb]

cfcw,
help me out here,
What is a low hanging friut-RO recapture?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Low hanging fruit = the stuff that's easy to get

RO reject = low hanging fruit

 

[MEP001]

The RO reject is a much better "reclaim" source too because it's clean, soft water that's not harmful to your equipment. It's just higher in TDS so it's not well suited for mixing with your chemicals.