Help! Dema 204 C and 2 Stack Rotary Switch

[Bubbles Galore]

This is the type of injector I purchased for siphoning in the chemicals for my dog wash. I don't know if I over sized it or what, but I can't get chemical to draw to save my life.

Those of you with systems, what type of injector are you using with your systems?

Secondly, I am having issues setting up my two stack rotary switch to get both my main water solenoid and my solution solenoids open at the same time.

Thanks in advance!

John

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[dreese]

GinSan.com / Services / Technical gives you many wiring schematics, including 8 pos rotary switches.
Timed hot comes in at 11 & 21. One side of the switch is for low pressure functions (your solenoid) the other is a motor latch to start the HP pump. (for example, terminal 14 to the solenoid, #24 to the motor latch / coil of the motor starter gives you HP soap if #14 leads to the soap solenoid)

 

[MEP001]

With two solenoids you should only have to connect one for the main water to all the outputs that you need for washing functions, just like hooking the motor starter to multiple outputs for the bay. The various solenoids for the different chemicals would connect to their appropriate outputs on the other stack.

If your injector is too big, you won't be able to restrict flow enough with the one adjustment to make it draw chemical even with the other adjustment wide open.

 

[bigleo48]

Bubbles,

I replied to you email. Are u using the 204C for the common suction and a manifold block for the individual chems (like this one https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-1974-kip-manifold-block-metering-screw-5-outlets.aspx ?)

So it's setup like in my picture http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/AGLb2n0HWMv0ltCAkahCAw?feat=directlink

So this is the route the chemicals take. From pail into KIP manifoid, then sucked into the Dema injector at the injector port.

Main water thru the main solenoid, into the dema injector (thru port), mix with chem and out to the tub.

Make sense?

Big

 

[mjwalsh]

This is the type of injector I purchased for siphoning in the chemicals for my dog wash. I don't know if I over sized it or what, but I can't get chemical to draw to save my life.

Those of you with systems, what type of injector are you using with your systems?

Bubbles-John,

My parts list ordered from Nat'l Pride shows Dema 203B 3/8 inch adjustable. We had the same problem. Nat'l Pride walked us through the process & saved the day for us. At first Trent thought that maybe our water pressure was too low but the truth was that we needed to install their Watts water pressure regulator that we had but skipped & then adjusted the pressure down to 45 psi if I remember right. If our water pressure had been too low Trent would have sent us a revised injector part. It boiled down to us having too much pressure that caused the no suction. If you have clear tubing you can see when suction starts when the proper screw is tightened all the way & then gradually backed out if I remember right. It was a process to get the approximate proportions down. We had to recalibrate so we had 2 gpm or more of water rather than 1.5 gallons to accommodate customer input. I hope this helps!

Once you get it set up like Big Leo said it will be extremely reliable----so don't give up. I am tangled up is some other things right now & apologize for not having had my --- as built documentation ---at my fingertips. Lord willing that will happen & I will be in a better postion down the road.

Mike

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for the responses guys. After talking with one of my chemical guys, I ordered the wrong injector, the 204 C 1/2" is far too big for my system. I ordered the 203 B which should put me right where I want to be.

Big - Thanks for the e-mail, as far as the manifold goes, this is the one I picked up and it has worked well in spite of the non-functioning injector.

I was able to figure out the rotary switch after some counseling from Jim over at Etowah Valley. I'm getting my final inspection in about an hour and then Lord willing we will be off to the races!

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I got the proper injector hooked up and life is good, except for the fact that I have been unable to properly set my suction rates to get me back on clear water for the rinse option. Once the lines fill up with shampoo for example, everything works well. When I switch to rinse, the solution in the lines continues to get sucked into the water line which will not clear due to the vacuum that is created by the suction from the injector (my theory). Does anyone have a solution?

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[mjwalsh]

clear water for the rinse option. Once the lines fill up with shampoo for example, everything works well. Does anyone have a solution?

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Bubbles,

We thought the same thing & then we remembered that soft water tends to keep bubbling the tiny amounts of shampoo. We included on one of our homemade signs that are kind of in their face --- the suggestion to use at least a few seconds of conditioner to kill the suds. It works like a charm. When we show a prospective customer we also try to mention that little tip to reinforce what hopefully they read. If we ever get our website set up that will be part of our "show & tell".

Let us know if that solves it --- so far with our set up we never had that problem.

MJ

 

[Bubbles Galore]

MJ - I thought the same thing at first. I emptied all the chemicals out of the manifold and put it on rinse and proceeded to use the system. With only the water solenoid powered up, it was still somehow siphoning chemicals through the mainfold. Is it possible that I have the suction too high on the injector? The only way I can get clear rinse water (along with some slight bubbles from the softener) is to completely close the injector. Does this make any sense?

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[mjwalsh]

Bubbles,

Do you have a gauge on your water pressure going through the injector so you can eliminate that as an issue? I know that Nat'l Pride told me that the main injector orifice size has to match the available water pressure & there was a consideration along that line. Are you using a pressure regulator?

MJ

 

[MEP001]

I just thought of something - is there a special solenoid block for mixing multiple inlets to one common outlet? The one you linked is meant to have liquid into the manifold and multiple outlets - if you put a suction on a solenoid in reverse configuration there's nothing to stop the flow of liquid except the spring pressure on the plunger.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

^That's the same conclusion I came to last night. Big Leo posted a link to the manifold he used, so I am going to check to see if that one has a special feature or something set up for use in a dog wash.

MJ - I am going to put and inline pressure gauge in today to see what pressure I am at.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Here is the manifold that Big Leo is using, and here is the one that I purchased.

I'm not really seeing much of a difference, am I missing something?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Could it make a difference that I have the soaps elevated? Just a thought.

 

[car washing systems inc]

Have you tried the dema with the manifold block disconnected, and the water going into the injector, to see if it works that way ?

 

[MEP001]

I wouldn't think the soaps being elevated would matter. There's no siphon based on gravity involved, only of suction. Maybe the Kip solenoids have a stronger spring on the plunger - maybe you could stretch the ones in the Dema to give them more seating pressure.

 

[Randy]

My soap tanks are about 12-15” higher than my DEMA 203C injector/pumps and I don’t have any problems with chemicals leaking by. I’ve got 2 - 1/8” kip valves that lets the chemical flow into the DEMA injector when chemical is called for. I’ve got a separate 3/8” solenoid valve that supplies the water to the injector. If you can send me a picture of your setup.

 

[mjwalsh]

Physically verify that gravity is not causing your leakage!

My soap tanks are about 12-15” higher than my DEMA 203C injector/pumps and I don’t have any problems with chemicals leaking by. I’ve got 2 - 1/8” kip valves that lets the chemical flow into the DEMA injector when chemical is called for. I’ve got a separate 3/8” solenoid valve that supplies the water to the injector. If you can send me a picture of your setup.

Bubbles,

Our soap tanks are over a foot below in elevation from our 6 solenoid block manifold & injector. I think something has to be clarified about the Pet Wash injector systems. I do not believe that it is the same setup of a standard injector & manifold block that might even use a circulating pump that is more common in bay automatics & self service car washs that Randy & Mep might be referrring to. The distinction my humble brain has observed is all the different shampoos, conditioner, & disinfectant goes into the individual solenoid outlets of the block manifold so it does this reversy outlets used as inlets with a common outlet (labeled as inlet) that goes to the sprayer. Based on that reversy characteristic --- I am thinking that gravity may matter.

Mep & Randy are usually pretty sharp so with a picture of the tubes from your chemical tanks to the outlets used as inlets could make them look at it differently. I am thinking height & gravity could be a factor. It might have something to do with the strength of the spring in the solenoids being maybe not as strong when used in the opposite direction of the manufacturers' labeling etc. Maybe your picture can show the labeling or maybe those guys are already aware of the reverse flow distinction for Pet Washes verses other applications they are more used to.

MJ

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for all the input guys.

MJ is exactly right. After exhausting all of my ideas, I decided to huff the soaps back down from the loft and voila, that fixed my problem. We still had to adjust the soaps accordingly using the metering screws, but it was 100% better than it was.

 

[pitzerwm]

You know sitting here about half tanked, I'm wondering if you shouldn't build a visual display of the chemicals that you are selling even if they are fake, people react to the visual and if you have these "tubes" of soap/disinfectant/flea" whatever, they could connect easier. I think that people will spend money with what they can see, the same reason that a glass front vendor is smart.