Fire Department

[jeffs]

Today the fire marshall told me to remove all but one lock from my door. I have 1 steel door with 1 dead bolt and 2 slide bars with buffalo locks and a cage door with 2 hockey puck locks from american lock. I have never heard of anything like this and would like to here from others in the carwash business what you have on your doors and what you think about being limited to how you can secure your business. It has been nice not to have any break-ins or the front door bent up. With 7 washes I spent over 10,000 in 5 years with doors being pryed open. After I spent money on cage doors I have not lost a door or break-in for over 5 years at any of my washes. One last thing the Marshall asked why do I have a water heater and all my low voltage wires need to be in conduit

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Eric H]

Is this some kind of yearly check??
I'd just give him the "yeah, OK, I'll take care of it" and never do it. If you really want to **** him off you can ask for the specific code regarding the number of locks on a door.

 

[Jeff_L]

Agreed, ask for the code which specifies what he's saying. I get a yearly visit from the fire dept as well, they've never said anything about low voltage wires or locks on my door. Which is only a deadbolt and doorknob lock. They only thing they request is that I install my fire extinguisher in a more prominent location in the equipment room. I just can't find the time to do that though, fixing leaks and broken pumps migrate to the top of my list faster than a fire extinguisher.

 

[mjwalsh]

Today the fire marshall told me to remove all but one lock from my door. I have 1 steel door with 1 dead bolt and 2 slide bars with buffalo locks and a cage door with 2 hockey puck locks from american lock. I have never heard of anything like this and would like to here from others in the carwash business what you have on your doors and what you think about being limited to how you can secure your business. It has been nice not to have any break-ins or the front door bent up. With 7 washes I spent over 10,000 in 5 years with doors being pryed open. After I spent money on cage doors I have not lost a door or break-in for over 5 years at any of my washes. One last thing the Marshall asked why do I have a water heater and all my low voltage wires need to be in conduit

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff_L,

Like Eric suggested I would definitely request the wording of the pertinent code. Is the reasoning so they can get inside easier responding to a fire? In that case they are shifting too much on you when they should be practicing with the "Jaws of Life" & the other tools (that our tax dollars provide) they use & gain proficiency instead of second guessing your judgement based on actual experience. Would they accept personal or professional liability if someone got in & caused an explosion with fatalities because the interior gas lines were no longer as secure etc?

MJ

 

[mjc3333]

After 20 years of only having a single deadbolt on each car wash door, I installed 2 deadbolts, 2 abus locks with slide bars plus a self storage roll up door over the steel door with 2 more abus locks with slide bars for a total of 7 locks including the door knob itself.

Before this, I had to replace 3 different doors from attempted break-ins. Once all the doors are closed and locked, no one is in the building.

To me , the fire marshall is trying to cover his butt when it comes to fighting a fire with the threat of having possible human rescue at your wash. To me, once the doors are locked, the only thing left is the equipment. I would assume your car wash walls are some form of block with the door or doors the only way to enter the equipment room. The only other way to fight the fire would be the roof.

Having the extra locks and doors makes much more sense to me for security. Fire is nowhere near as common as a break-in.

 

[mjwalsh]

low voltage

Jeffs,

My previous post was meant for you Jeffs. Sorry, Jeff_L. Now that is straightened out:

Jeffs, if the Fire Marshall persists on the low voltage wires make sure that he shows you the exact wording of the specific code that he is using locally. This could be really horrific since the different localities tend to base their judgements on one of two codes if I remember right. There are terrible implications for the rest of us considering our low voltage cameras & our numerous 24 VAC solenoids etc. I recently had to stand my ground & while I had to give in some I did not give them Carte Blanche. Electricians often do not object because obviously they are not impartial to the potential extra business that only they are allowed to do exclusively.

Please share the code wording with us & maybe some of us can show where he is interpreting the code improperly. At some point, it seems to me that our constitutional rights should be a factor ---- especially if science does not support what is in the code &/or the whim of the public official!

MJ

 

[captain cw]

Sounds like someone is trying to justify his existence. A little show of authority? I would also want more documentation. Having been broke into myself over the years, I don't blame you one bit.

 

[Jeff_L]

Jeffs,

My previous post was meant for you Jeffs. Sorry, Jeff_L. Now that is straightened out:

No problem, I figured that out. Too many Jeff's in this world!


mjc3333 - 7 locks on one door? That would drive me insane. I'm always checking locks (OCD) many times, and when I forget something inside it would kill me to have to unlock them all, get what I need, re-lock everything, and check each lock 20 times before I left!

 

[rph9168]

It seemed like the same inspector never showed up twice and every time they came up with something different each time. Most of the time I ignored it unless it made sense. Never had a problem since they never followed up to see if I had made the corrections.

 

[Randy]

I haven’t had a Fire Inspection since 1991. Every time they call I tell them I will be available at the carwash from 0500 to 0630 everyday. They always come back with that’s not our normal business hours, that’s the hours I’ll be there so come on down. They never show up. Same with the guy from the city, who wanted to inspect my Backflow preventer, told him the same thing. I’m still waiting for him to come and inspect my Backflow preventer, it’s been about 5 years.

 

[pitzerwm]

Randy, that is a good one.

I can't believe that there is any city or state law/ordinance that controls or regulates your locks or security. You can easily look this up. I use to fight them over putting a fire extinguisher in my Laundries, after pointing out that if his wife were in the laundry and it caught on fire, he doubted if she would look for an extinguisher.

 

[Reds]

I owned a restaurant in Ithaca, NY where they made me put in a "knox box". That is a supposedly vandal proof box that you, the owner buys & installs outside, and it contains a key to open the doors. Every year when the building inspector did his annual walk thru he would make sure that the knox box was in place. You buy these boxes and the fire dept. has the key. If you change locks you need to call them, have them open it, and change the key. It's a lot of BS if you ask me. They have equipment to get them thru the doors, roof, or walls if they want in. In my opinion every inspector was the kid you threw spit balls at in school, and now they want to get even with the world.

 

[ScottV]

Randy,

In our City, the property owner is responsible for hiring a licensed technician and having the RPZ valve tested and filed with the NYS Health Dept. each year. The City doesnt do it for us so I couldnt use the early schedule trick on them.

Reds,

Ithaca NY?? I'm in Corning, about an hour away!

ScottV

 

[4csuns]

Our door problems ended when we put a folding steel door, anchored in concrete, in front of the main door. Only three locks: Abus in the folding gate, a deadbolt and keyway in the main door. No more problems.

 

[mjc3333]

mjc3333 - 7 locks on one door? That would drive me insane.

I agree, and I was the one to think up this crazy idea of layered security. If you were ever broken into at your wash and had the $$ amount of damage I had, you would then perceive the multiple locks and doors as 7 more deterrents.

Nothing will stop someone if they REALLY want to break in. The more doors and locks they would have to go through has stopped them for now.

Instead of me being driven insane, they are, when they see the doors and locks....... they just move on.

 

[Mr. Clean]

One solution would be to install a Knox Box that contains labelled keys. Only the fire department has keys to access should they need it. It saves them the hassle of trashing doors and barriers and you the cost of repair or replacement. We also have a list of potential hazards on the other side of the door with the keys. The only time it's been used was when a hot water hose blew and the steam set off the fire alarm. Clean up was pretty straight forward and no damaged door to try and secure.

http://www.knoxbox.com/store/

MC