New Lights for the Self Serve

[Bubbles Galore]

Hey guys,

I just put in new lights in one of my bays to "try out" and wow what a difference it makes. I replaced (2) 175 W metal halides with yellowed lenses out with these lights from Simkar. I will snap a picture in the morning when I go back by the car wash, but I will definitely be ordering 5 more sets for the rest of my bays. They are spectacular!

F.Y.I. I'm still a little hazy on how much of an energy savings I can expect, so if any of you lighting gurus want to chime in, feel free...

 

[Randy]

How many per bay did you install? Cost per unit?

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Click here for the picture...

The bay to the left has (2) 250 W metal halides, the next bay has the new T5 fixtures (keep in mind that this bay also has the walls painted white - it was my test bay) and the remaining bays have (2) 175 W metal halides...you sure can tell a difference!

Randy, the lights were $165/piece, but when I place the order for the next 10, I should get 15-20% off per light.

 

[mjc3333]

I did the same thing two years ago. I had 2 175 MH in each bay and switched to 2 T-8 fluorescent in each bay. The bay was at least 35% brighter, had better distribution of light, and I am saving about 30% on my overall electric bill. My cost for electricity is about 9.5 cents per KWH.

One other thing I learned was the fact that the MH lights no matter what size lose their output lumens over time at a much faster rate than the T-8 or T-5 fluorescents. The MH also ends up drawing more and more power as they lose the lumens output. To me, that is where the T-8 or T-5 has the winning combination over any MH out there for in bay lighting.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Are they the 4 Bulb per fixture or 6 that you are using? At 4 per fixture, T5 is 100 watt total. Lower than 120 W for 2 HO 4 foot fixtures I use, but the downside is twice the # of bulbs to keep track of.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I'm using the 4 bulb fixture. The bulbs are the 54w T5's...with such a high wattage rating, I'm confused about how much energy I'm really saving.

 

[bigleo48]

Bubbles,

So you did not consider induction lighting? http://www.inductionlamps.com/productSurfaceMount.shtml

It seems the better way to go as the fluorescents are just as costly to operate, don't give much of a break on power consumption, are temperamental at low temps, etc.

Big

 

[Earl Weiss]

I'm using the 4 bulb fixture. The bulbs are the 54w T5's...with such a high wattage rating, I'm confused about how much energy I'm really saving.

Are you using two or four fixtures per bay? 2 fixtures would be total 432 Watts per bay, but I would need to see how 2 , four foot fixtures could give good coverage.

As I have posted before, I use these

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LITHONIA-Wet-Location-Fluorescent-Fixture-2MZH6?Pid=search

Two sixty watt HO bulbs (No low temp issues) per fixture. Mounted about 8 feet high , 2 on each sidewall (480 total watts per bay) gives great light dispersion on the sides and tops of the car.

Bulbs seem about the same cost.

 

[mjc3333]

I am using a T-8 four 4ft bulbs (2 rows end to end) to give me an eight foot light.

The reason I chose the 4 ft bulbs was cost. Each one is about $1.50 each. The fixture also has only one ballast for all 4 bulbs. It is very cheap to replace (one ballast instead of two).

The eight foot T-8 bulbs were at least $6 or $7 dollars each. Not as popular. The T-5 bulbs are about $3.50 each.

The other reason I went with the T-8 instead of the T-5 was energy savings. The T-5 does use more energy (54 watts per bulb) and is in fact "brighter" than the T-8 counterpart(T-5 about 4000 lumens per bulb T-8 about 3000 lumens per bulb), but since I spent over $3,000 to replace 16 lights (2 for each bay - 8 bays total), I wanted to save money on the upfront cost (the T-8 bulbs and fixtures were cheaper than the T-5's) and more importantly the monthly energy costs.

Two T-5 fixture would use 216 watts total (4 bulbs X 54 watts) or 432 watts per bay.

Two HO fixtures will run 480 watts per bay.

A regular HO fluorescent fixture will give you a great deal of light, but will cost you dearly for ballasts, bulbs, and electricity costs. HO ballasts are very expensive as are the bulbs themselves.

The T-8's I used are rated at 32 watts each. 4 for each fixture would be 128 watts or 256 watts per bay. I was using two 175 MH per bay which was 350 watts per bay. Simple math gives you a 27% savings (256/350 watts= .73 or 27% less. If I went with the T-5 fixtures, I would end up spending more than if I stuck with the 175 MH. 216 watts X 2= 432 watts to 175 watts X 2=350 watts.

As I stated in my last post, I saw a savings of about 30% on electric bill.

There are probably 20 or 30 different ways to light your bays MH, HO fl, T-8, T-5, LED, etc. etc. etc........ you just have to pick one.

 

[MEP001]

That's the same light I ordered to replace 2 320W Scottsdales per pay with four 128W fluorescent, unfortunately they shipped with the wrong clips and the distributor keeps running me around about getting the correct ones.

My plan (to maximize on the energy savings) was to turn off half the bulbs in each fixture at midnight. The distributor told me each fixture was two internal circuits but it's not, but I can still turn off two fixtures. Even leaving them all on it would save close to $100 a year per bay - turning off half at midnight will make it closer to $200.

Thanks for posting your source - it's $80 cheaper per fixture than mine.

 

[MEP001]

The other reason I went with the T-8 instead of the T-5 was energy savings. The T-5 does use more energy (54 watts per bulb) and is in fact "brighter" than the T-8 counterpart(T-5 about 4000 lumens per bulb T-8 about 3000 lumens per bulb), but since I spent over $3,000 to replace 16 lights (2 for each bay - 8 bays total), I wanted to save money on the upfront cost (the T-8 bulbs and fixtures were cheaper than the T-5's) and more importantly the monthly energy costs.

I started to go with the T-5, but I couldn't get a balance of enough bulbs on after midnight to keep the bay lit with the right number to save energy. On the plus side, the efficacy (Amount of light per watt) is the same between the two.

 

[mjc3333]

MEP

Did you go with the T-5's or the T-8's, or something totally different?

I also forgot to mention, I use an electronic astronomical timer that has two different output controls. I actually have 20 T-8 fixtures 16 (2 in each bay 8 bay total) and 4 others on the car wash building over the changers and the equipment door.

I turn on the lights above the changers , above the equipment door, both lights in the bays next to the equipment room, and one light over the coin box in all the other bays. 20 minutes later, the rest of the T-8's turn on (the second output). At 12:AM I shut off the second output leaving the rest on all night long. That is where I get my savings from. Kind of what you are trying to do with turning off some of the actual bulbs in each light.

I guess it depends on your area, how well you feel a "darker bay" less lights would affect you during the middle of the night for safety reasons.

For me, it has worked out well. The wash is never totally dark in any bay at any time.

 

[MEP001]

I went with the T-8 so I could put 4 fixtures around the bay instead of two catacorner. I'm hoping that even though it's less light output than the two Scottsdales that it will light up the car better with more sources and all the light shining down.

I'm sure half the lights burning will be more than adequate for security; I have no real concerns about that at our location. It's a very quiet area but it's at a main intersection with a cop car going by every few minutes. Right now it's running off a single photocell to control everything, but I have considered the astronomical timer to prevent the lights in the bays from staying on if it's heavily overcast.

 

[soapy]

I changed the lighting over about 2 months ago at 3 of my washes. I went with 42 watt wall pak CFLs. Home depot has lithonia wall paks like mine for under $40 each with the bulb. Using 4 in each SS bay and 6 in my auto bays I have ample light. It compares to the roughly 750 to 900 watts of metal halide I used before. I have the lights split up on timers so I only burn 1/2 of them after midnight. It looks like I am saving over $200 per month per location on electricity.

 

[packerscw]

Do you leave your bay lights on all night? Or do you have them on a timer? If timer how late do you have them on until?

 

[Randy]

With the long dark dreary days up here in the Pacific Northwest about the first of October I pull the stops out of my bay light timers and leave the lights on 24/7 until early Spring. I’ve been doing it this way for years. It doesn’t seem to add much to the power bill. I use 2 8’ T-12 110 watt H.O fluorescent fixtures per bay and have been thinking about replacing them with the T-5 Century fluorescent light LIFH08 from Kleen-Rite www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-24666-8-2-light-t5-high-output-flourescent-light-120277v.aspx because the lens on the ones I’ve got now are cracked or broken. The replacement lens for the fixtures I have now are very expensive, almost $100 a piece. Has anyone tired these fixtures?

 

[Jeff_L]

One of my washes has all the lights on a timer which I adjust with the changing sunsets and sun rises.

The other wash has all the lights tied to a single photo sensor. At midnight half the lights turn off (two MH lights per bay, so one stays on per bay). Parking lamps, every other stays on.

I like the wash having a photo sensor and turning half the lights off at midnight. Just haven't found the time to rewire the other wash that same way.

 

[soapy]

Randy, I have a couple of the Kleenrite T5 waterproof light fixtures. I am getting ready to install them in my detail shop. Last Week I bought 40- 4 foot twin bulb T5 fixtures for $45 each. These are also going in the detail shop to replace my T12 that I currently have.
ANyone looking into replacing their lights should look into the energy savings act of 2005. FOr commercial buildings that replace their lights with energy efficient lights you can get a tax credit of up to .60 cents per square foot of your building. This includes SS car wash bays. ANything except exterior lights. Have your electric utility come and do and energy audit for verification. BY using new CFL technology you can reduce your energy demand and qualify for this. My local utilities paid 1/2 of the cost of the upgrades. WIth the tax credit it will end up being free. Even Rocky Mt. Power has a program for those of us in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[mjwalsh]

better control approach for lighting in my opinion

Just to let you guys know in case you are uncomfortable with the accuracy of the photo cell that turns on & off your lights. We have found that this higher end sensor in our natural light polycarbonate 2 stall dog wash building to be extremely accurate, reliable, durable netting long term energy savings because we can set the exact differential with it. The consideration is that you need to have an analog module on a PLC or similar device & then to a relay to set it up. We went with the 0-10vdc version rather than the 4-20ma version.

http://www.controldepot.net/skylightcelestiallightsensor0-10vdc.aspx

MJ

 

[Randy]

Soapy thanks for the heads up with the power company giving out rebates. I’ll contact Puget Sound Energy and see what programs they’ve got. Keep us posted on the Kleen-Rite waterproof T-5 fixture. I’d like to know more before I pull the trigger. Did you get the 2 tube 4 footer or the 4 tube 8 footer? I’ve got 8 foot T-12’s now and I like the spread of the light in the bay.