Wash frozen up - 2 days

[Sequoia]

My wash has been in a total power outage area with below freezing temps going on 3 days now. My weep system is dependent on power, and although I do have battery backup it ran out of juice and died after about 24 hours. Grrr. So I know the wash is badly frozen.

I'm going to visit it late today and assess what I can. I'm hoping power will be restored by the time I get there.

Any suggestions on any special tools or equipment to take? And, obviously I need to figure out a new weep system that is not dependent on power ....

 

[MEP001]

A simple weep system modification would be to use a normally open solenoid. A power failure will just let the weep run.

You might buy or rent one of the jet-style kerosine heaters to warm up the room, or find one that requires no external power to run.

 

[Tpoppa]

A simple weep system modification would be to use a normally open solenoid. A power failure will just let the weep run.

You might buy or rent one of the jet-style kerosine heaters to warm up the room, or find one that requires no external power to run.

Agreed.

Is your eqipment room frozen. If so, you'll likely have some repairs. I had a freeze 2 years ago that popped a few fittings and damaged a pump. Luckily it was an old pump that I was planning to replace anyway.

 

[Randy]

No heat in the equipment room. You might as well figure on a lot of broken equipment. The last time I was involved in repairing a car wash that froze the bill was upwards of 6K. Everything that had water in it was broken or didn’t work right after it thawed out. You should have a gas type heater in your equipment room so when the power goes off you’ll still have some heat. This is the type we are using now. They require no electricity

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKMDLO...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B000KKMDLO

For your weep system you need to have a DixmorDX1000 Weepmizer with a Normally open valve.

 

[kentadel]

Last year we had a snow storm/power outage at X-mas time for three days with temps below zero. I could not get to the wash.We ended up freezing and breaking boiler, heat exchanger, cat pumps, ro system, soft water system, many pipes, hoses and fittings plus pipes and hoses in trough above bays. 35 grand later we were up and running. Froze even with weep and gas heater requiring no electricity. First time in twenty years that has happened to me. Good luck and I hope your damage is not too severe. I should add the damper on the cold air supply for the boiler stuck open, allowing the wind to come into the equipment room and the heater was not able to keep up.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Last year we had a snow storm/power outage at X-mas time for three days with temps below zero. I could not get to the wash.We ended up freezing and breaking boiler, heat exchanger, cat pumps, ro system, soft water system, many pipes, hoses and fittings plus pipes and hoses in trough above bays. 35 grand later we were up and running. Froze even with weep and gas heater requiring no electricity. First time in twenty years that has happened to me. Good luck and I hope your damage is not too severe. I should add the damper on the cold air supply for the boiler stuck open, allowing the wind to come into the equipment room and the heater was not able to keep up.

Turn off the water at the main ASAP. That way if temps increase or power comes on and things thaw you won't be spraying water all over from every leak. After turning water off at the main leave any other valve you find open to relieve pressure easily.

My weep is plumbed with a T to seperate solenoids one normaly open and one normaly closed. The pipe then rejoins past the solenoids andgoes to the weep lines. The weep triggers the normaly closed at various intervals and the normaly open is plugged into an outlet controlled by a switch. The switch is a light switch actualy in upside down so the down position is "ON" giving power to the NO solenoid so it closes when power is on. If power fails the weep controller doesn't work but the NO solenoid lkoses power and opens so the weep flows steadily. If I ever need to help thaw something I can put the switch up to OFF so the weep will run steady as I try to thaw something.

 

[soapy]

I keep a small honda generator on hand along with a 35,000 btu salamander propane heater and a full 80 lb. propane bottle. It will run about 36 hours in an emergency. I would take down all the hoses from the boom down and let them thaw out in the equipment room while you work on the overhead lines. let the equipment room thaw slowly to minimize damages.

 

[Sequoia]

Results

Thanks to everyone for responding. I took the heater, as recommended, and also a propane unit to leave running overnight tonight. (probably should not do that, but ....) Plus a generator and a lot lot more.

Fortunately, I got the equipment room warmed up pretty good, and as suggested got all the hoses into it which got them all thawed out. I had to go manually heat each boom and eventually they thawed out also.

The batteries in my battery backup (twin 6v deep cycle wired in series powering a Xantrex inverter) are completely utterly shot. I removed them from the system and they pop the breaker on the charger when I try to charge them. I guess they didn't like being depleted to zero and left that way in freezing temps. Fortunately, I bought two replacements before leaving for the wash as I pretty much expected that.

Once again, using the replacement batteries, I have self-generated 110v at the wash. I unplugged virtually everything except the weep system and wired/forced the weep into full time mode-- no cycling by the Weepmizer. It will have to stay that way for the next couple of days until I can get back and sort it out but that's ok.

This was a pretty scary event but other than a very loooooong day I came out with no equipment damage. Well, at least I hope so-- the power is still out so I can't really fire anything up to test it.

There are going to be some changes implemented at my wash-- starting with a normally open solenoid for the weep and the heater unit that requires no power to operate. The potential damage by a multi-day outage is just too great to take a chance on.

Again, thanks to all who responded- they were excellent suggestions. Ooops-- one more thing. I brought a camping lantern and that helped tremendously also.

 

[Twodose]

My wash has been in a total power outage area with below freezing temps going on 3 days now. My weep system is dependent on power, and although I do have battery backup it ran out of juice and died after about 24 hours. Grrr. So I know the wash is badly frozen.

I'm going to visit it late today and assess what I can. I'm hoping power will be restored by the time I get there.

Any suggestions on any special tools or equipment to take? And, obviously I need to figure out a new weep system that is not dependent on power ....

What part of the country you in that your power was out for so long? I live in NEPA and have had the power out for up to 6 days in the summer, never that long in the winter though, guess that could happen anywhere. Like others mentioned, total freezeups that include the equipment room can be very costly.

I know the original owner of one Carwash I own had no antifreeze in the floor heat, went on vacation, left his daughter to tend the wash, when he came back the pipes in the floor heat were totally frozen and busted, he had to replace all the floors and tubing.

Hope everything works out well for you.

 

[Sequoia]

Location

My wash is in Arnold, CA. This is on the highway to Bear Valley Ski Area.

Last night was supposed to be the coldest-- the weather underground says it is 23 degrees right now but that source isn't usually too reliable. There is a dedicated weather station there but it still is off-line due to power.

A storm went through, dumped a ton of snow, and lots of trees went crashing through power lines. That's what caused the multi-day outage.

I'm still not sure if I have power at the wash or not, as I can't connect to any of the cameras or other electronics I have there. But, someone was supposed to check on it at 4am this morning and call me if power was not restored-- and I never got a call.

 

[Waxman]

Randy:

What turns the wall mounted heater on if it gets too cold? What do you have it set at? 30F?

Is it propane or natural gas???

 

[Sequoia]

Power

Just got the call. Still now power. Ugh.

I researched those ventless units last night and found that the ones with slightly higher btu's have a thermostat. But I don't know how it turns on or off or runs the thermostat without power?

 

[MEP001]

The "electricless" units have a standing pilot and use microvoltage to operate, pretty much the same as many standard household water heaters. The thermostat in such a unit can be a bimetal coil type like a cheap home AC thermostat or a capillary tube/bulb sensor switch. I'm sure even a battery-operated HVAC thermostat would work.

 

[Jimmy Buffett]

I've been meaning to pick up a couple of those heaters that screw on to the propane tank. I think I may just do that today before the power goes out this winter.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I've been meaning to pick up a couple of those heaters that screw on to the propane tank. I think I may just do that today before the power goes out this winter.

I have one that I use occasionally. The small tanks are a pain in the butt, I recommend buying a bigger tank and strapping it onto a cheap hand truck.

((Yes I still use the small tanks, I aint happy about it.))

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Had it happen years ago.
Bought 4 propane heaters, the larger the better.
Used one heater for the equipment room.
I did not have doors on my bays so I bought 6 tarps (with eyelets) the size of the door openings.
Installed "j" hooks in the corners of the door openings and attached the tarps to 3 bays and one heater in each bay.
It doesn't take to long to heat up the bays and the room this way.
This helped in three ways .
It thawed out my lines in the bays and room.
It made it more comfortable/faster to repair all the fittings that broke both in the room and bays.
Third is you will most likely have major ice on the walls and even the ceiling of the bays and possibly the room.
This will also thaw but you must make sure it doesn't drip in all the wrong places that could cause other problems.
As I finished one bay I would take the tarps and heater to the next bay and start thawing it until all bays were working.
Good luck

 

[Sequoia]

Frozen

It's 8pm and I just got the call. Still no power. Going into Day 4 now. Grrr.

The weep is forced on, with two deep cycle batteries making 110v and then powering a 110v to 24VAC transformer. Yeah, that's about as hokey as it gets but with the "chips down" its all I could cobble together.

The power company is saying "probably tomorrow" for power. Great-- tonight is supposed to be the coldest one of all. In the meantime, my small propane heater, sitting atop a propane tank and located in the back of the equipment room is keeping the equipment room unfrozen.

I think if I get through 1 more day I'll be in the clear. Then it's time to make some changes.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

The weep is forced on, with two deep cycle batteries making 110v and then powering a 110v to 24VAC transformer. Yeah, that's about as hokey as it gets but with the "chips down" its all I could cobble together.

Can't you just take the "guts" out of your weep solenoid to get the water flowing?

 

[Sequoia]

Weep

With 210amp of battery power, I suspect it can hold a single solenoid open for longer than I will need. At least, that's what I am hoping! If the same battery set could power my changers, vending machine, DVR, and a slug of cameras for most of a day I think it will hold a solenoid for several days since I've now disabled all that extra draw on power.

As long as it holds until the power is restored I am fine. And, I am the backup system-- I'll arrive again tomorrow with a gas powered generator to re-juice the batteries if they need it.

The best fix, suggested earlier, is to modify it to a normally open solenoid. Then, if power fails, it allows flow instead of restricting it.

Maybe I could have re-plumbed away from the solenoid entirely. It's a fair question. But in the dark freezing equipment room environment I ... chose ... to roll the dice instead.

 

[ToFarGone20]

Normaly open solenoid on weep and I installed a box to cut my raypak from incoming power (kind of like what you could put on your house if you wanted to power the whole thing during a power outage with a generator). I have a pig tail on that box and plug it into my honda generator. It will run floor heat and the needed circulating pumps as well as my heater in the equipment room.

Saved me during two very nasty ice storms. Yes you will have to stay around and gas the generator...but you will be spending time either way (replacing all the damaged parts that freeze and crack or just fueling a generator).

I have seen places look like a deep freeze and have minimal damage and I have see the exact opposite...I hope you have the first situation.