Ryko cold weather door control

[Jud]

I have a 2 bay wash w/ Futura touchfree one one side, Ryko SoftGloss on the other. Door control on the Futura works beautifully, the Ryko has a flaw that I have had to live with since day one regarding the closing of the exit door. There have been many instances where the exit door does not close after a wash, and several times in the evening after I have left the wash, and as result the door open all night and all the problems that come with that. I have been told that the Ryko gives a one shot order message to close the door, and if anything ever happens to negate that signal, a repeat message does not come. --I have a stand alone dryer, and one scenario to negate the door closing is when a customer backs-up and break the beam for the photo eye safety switch and causes a door to go up, after it already started down. That may or may not be a good scenairo, but it does explain the problem. The Futura will sense the door is not down after a few minutes and repete the down signal, and will continue doing this until the door closes. I would love to have the Ryko control work like the Futura. Can anyone help? Jud

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Maybe you could use the shutting down of the dryer to trigger a "door close" signal. I'm thinking maybe using a normally closed relay tied into the door "close" button. Wire it so it would be powered and "open" when the dryer is running, then when it loses power it closes the "close" circuit for your buttons. It shouldn't affect an already closed door and you could just pull the relay out during warm weather so it wouldn't operate all the time, or you could probably install a thermostat in that circuit to take care of that.

I'm just thinking out loud here, so feel free to shoot holes in my theory, or perfect it, whichever you choose.

 

[DiamondWash]

Do you have "F1" flashing on the control box in the bay?

 

[Jud]

I have thought of different ways to trigger the door to close, but what I really need is assurance that the door will close, for what ever reason it did not close the first time. The door control needs to recognize if the door is closed, or not, and if not, wait a given time (say 1 min.) and give the signal to close again. This sequence will repete itself as many times as necessary until the door finally closes. You could ask what could ever stop a door from closing, and my answer is it does not matter, anything, maybe a piece of paper that blew up and covered the photo eye. This is how the Futura works and it is great. If you used the dryer timer as a trigger to shut the door and the customer didn't leave right away you would have the same problem.
I really don't understand why Ryko didn't design the control this way in the first place, because it just makes common sense. For all I know they did, but the people involved in my installation didn't have any idea how to hook it up. I don't know which is the case, but it seems to me that this is something that should have been anticapited. Anyway,thanks for you thoughts.

 

[Jud]

Do you have "F1" flashing on the control box in the bay?

Yes, I do have the flashing light. The doors do work properly most of the time. It is just every now and then that the exit door will remain open, and of course once will do thge damage. This actually happened the last time about 0ne week ago, and I was at the wash before anybody tried to go through in the morning and found the door wide open. The brushes were iced up and would have damaged a car if anybody would have gone through. I like being lucky, but I don't like depending on luck. That same morning I had 4 cars already go through the other wash. Thanks, Jud

 

[DiamondWash]

what doors do you have?

 

[Jud]

what doors do you have?

I have electric Liftmaster (I think) openers and polycarbinate doors. The exact same doors on both machines. Thanks

 

[soapy]

There are time delay amplifiers availible for the carlo galvazzi photo eyes that Ryko uses. I have added these in the past to eliminate door problems. I would start with one of them and see if it takes care of the problem. It is a plug and play replacment for the regular amplifier. It has an extra dial control for the time delay compared to the standard 2 dial amplifier.

 

[Jud]

There are time delay amplifiers availible for the carlo galvazzi photo eyes that Ryko uses. I have added these in the past to eliminate door problems. I would start with one of them and see if it takes care of the problem. It is a plug and play replacment for the regular amplifier. It has an extra dial control for the time delay compared to the standard 2 dial amplifier.

I will have to look into this as I don't know nothing about, or even knew there are amplifiers. But my question is will this give me a repeated signal until the doors are confirmed down? It seems to me to get a confirmed down signal a magnetic prox switch will be required that will be mounted to the floor under the door. (Futura uses to tell the door control whether, or not, that a repete signal is required.) ---The 2 main things that the Ryko door control does not do is 1, it does not confirm that a door is ever closed (it does tell it to close, but never confirms the action as complete) and 2, it does not repete the close signal if necessary.---Again, I must say here that maybe it is supposed to but my machine is just not wired correctly.

 

[RykoPro]

I will have to look into this as I don't know nothing about, or even knew there are amplifiers. But my question is will this give me a repeated signal until the doors are confirmed down? It seems to me to get a confirmed down signal a magnetic prox switch will be required that will be mounted to the floor under the door. (Futura uses to tell the door control whether, or not, that a repete signal is required.) ---The 2 main things that the Ryko door control does not do is 1, it does not confirm that a door is ever closed (it does tell it to close, but never confirms the action as complete) and 2, it does not repete the close signal if necessary.---Again, I must say here that maybe it is supposed to but my machine is just not wired correctly.

The amplifier is the actually relay that runs the eyes, you must have it for the eyes to work at all. The time delay allows you to mount the eyes inside the door and then it will just wait to shut the door after the eyes are made again. Ryko does not monitor the doors on a rollover and you only get one pulse signal to close the door. If the door is not closing with the single pulse signal from the door control relay then there is a communication problem between the door and the PLC or the door has issues. I am sure I could tell you how to modify the kit to monitor the door if you need to, I have never had to before, but I am sure it can be done.

 

[Jud]

The amplifier is the actually relay that runs the eyes, you must have it for the eyes to work at all. The time delay allows you to mount the eyes inside the door and then it will just wait to shut the door after the eyes are made again. Ryko does not monitor the doors on a rollover and you only get one pulse signal to close the door. If the door is not closing with the single pulse signal from the door control relay then there is a communication problem between the door and the PLC or the door has issues. I am sure I could tell you how to modify the kit to monitor the door if you need to, I have never had to before, but I am sure it can be done.

Thanks, My installer did not include eyes, and as a result the door actually closed on a customer which cost me damage repair. That is when I installed photo eyes that are tied into the Liftmaster (electric door opener) which is a safety to keep that sort of thing happening again. So, I guess that is why I don't know anything about an amplifier. So what is the best way to go now? To expand on my problem, I can't actually say I know every time why the door did not close, but I do think each time a close pulse is issued, but for some reason not heard or negated. I really think that it has been negated. In either instance, a repeated close signal would solve the problem. I looks to me that the Ryko door control needs to be thought out some more, and to take it even a step further, a lock out switch for the individual doors would be a plus. Thanks for your input. Jud

 

[robblackburn]

Ryko Doors

Jud -
I have the same issues with my doors on the Ryko automatic. My problem is usually the exit door that is open. This usually happens when a wash is ordered and the entrance door does not open because it is fromzen to the ground or just does not work. If that wash is never activated the Ryko resets the machine and as part of this process they also OPEN the exit door. There are a few ways to fix but I just put a freeze alarm in the bay and drive over when it happens and shut the door.

Rob

 

[RykoPro]

Thanks, My installer did not include eyes, and as a result the door actually closed on a customer which cost me damage repair. That is when I installed photo eyes that are tied into the Liftmaster (electric door opener) which is a safety to keep that sort of thing happening again. So, I guess that is why I don't know anything about an amplifier. So what is the best way to go now? To expand on my problem, I can't actually say I know every time why the door did not close, but I do think each time a close pulse is issued, but for some reason not heard or negated. I really think that it has been negated. In either instance, a repeated close signal would solve the problem. I looks to me that the Ryko door control needs to be thought out some more, and to take it even a step further, a lock out switch for the individual doors would be a plus. Thanks for your input. Jud

You have to have eyes or a loop detector hooked to the carwash PLC or the exit door will never close. What are you using to notify the wash that the person has left?

 

[RykoPro]

Jud -
I have the same issues with my doors on the Ryko automatic. My problem is usually the exit door that is open. This usually happens when a wash is ordered and the entrance door does not open because it is fromzen to the ground or just does not work. If that wash is never activated the Ryko resets the machine and as part of this process they also OPEN the exit door. There are a few ways to fix but I just put a freeze alarm in the bay and drive over when it happens and shut the door.

Rob

I have never heard of this problem before. Do you use a loop or eyes to shut the exit door during normal operation?

 

[robblackburn]

I have never heard of this problem before. Do you use a loop or eyes to shut the exit door during normal operation?

There are both eyes and the loop in the ground. After the vehicle clears the loop the door will close. The eyes are just for safety to reverse the doors incase the loop missed something. I am pretty sure the Jud and myself have the same setup. Thanks.

 

[RykoPro]

There are both eyes and the loop in the ground. After the vehicle clears the loop the door will close. The eyes are just for safety to reverse the doors incase the loop missed something. I am pretty sure the Jud and myself have the same setup. Thanks.

I have seen problems when using eyes connected directly to the door controller. I would either get rid of the eyes or use the eyes (send the signal to the PLC and not straight to the door controller) without the loop and let the wash control the doors. Do you have two loops (one inside the door and one out side the door hooked in parallel) or just one loop (out side the door). I am assuming you have a Softgloss and not an older voyager since the voyager would not reset if the wash did not activate?

 

[robblackburn]

I have seen problems when using eyes connected directly to the door controller. I would either get rid of the eyes or use the eyes (send the signal to the PLC and not straight to the door controller) without the loop and let the wash control the doors. Do you have two loops (one inside the door and one out side the door hooked in parallel) or just one loop (out side the door). I am assuming you have a Softgloss and not an older voyager since the voyager would not reset if the wash did not activate?

yes - we both have a softgloss with two loop detectors and one is inside the door and the other is outside. I am positive that the machine opens the front door when the wash is reset because I have watched it happen. Is there a way within the Ryko system to make it close again?

 

[Jud]

Rob is correct, I use the loop detector (actually 2, one inside, one out) and the photo eye diretly to the door motor controller. I did't realize that there was an option on how to hook up the photo eyes. How do I hook them into the plc, and what is it going to do? Rob, your freeze alarm idea is a good thought, but you know how I like to go to warmer weather in the winter time any chance I get, so I'm trying to make the wash as automatic as possible. When I am out of town I rely on other people, and their interest is not as vested as mine, I know you know. It is starting to look like my vision of what the Ryko door control should be is just a pipe dream. I can say that the door control on the Futura still works beautifully after 8 years, and I have lived with the Ryko the same period of time, so I am sure life will go on. But on the other hand, I can't convince myself that it should be real difficult to modify the Ryko to behave as I think it should. Thanks for everybodys help, Jud

 

[RykoPro]

There are a few different door control options. Even though most operate pretty much the same, there are differences between models and age. I would need to know what machine model, build date and software program revision to tell you exactly how its supposed to work. I do know Ryko is working on using photo eyes on the entrance door as an option.
It can be difficult to modify door controls, you have to take into consideration EVERY possible scenario. The Ryko door control only want to only see one type of feedback, either from a loop or an eye (not both) and once you start bypassing the PLC (hooking eyes or loops directly to the door control) it opens up all kinds of possibilities.

 

[Jud]

There are a few different door control options. Even though most operate pretty much the same, there are differences between models and age. I would need to know what machine model, build date and software program revision to tell you exactly how its supposed to work. I do know Ryko is working on using photo eyes on the entrance door as an option.
It can be difficult to modify door controls, you have to take into consideration EVERY possible scenario. The Ryko door control only want to only see one type of feedback, either from a loop or an eye (not both) and once you start bypassing the PLC (hooking eyes or loops directly to the door control) it opens up all kinds of possibilities.

My machine was built in 2002, SN 121615 amd the program is 25696-000. I understand what you mean by ervery scenario, but I bet you can get almost all of them. I would be happy to help you if there is any question. You did make a comment about about never heard of this situation, but it has been on my mind for years, and I have talked to several people who admit to the same problem when asked. They probably got the same response as I, which is that this is what the machine does, and so dropped the issue as unfixable. I do want to thank everybody for their input. Jud