Vendor Glass Replacement Advice Needed

[mjwalsh]

Well it happened to our glass front MegaVendor from KleenRite ---- zero malicious vandalism for over 10 years at our place ----- was lullabying us I guess. We got a bit careless on some sensors & the day time monitoring etc. About 8:15 this Sunday morning our 52 selection with pop & juice refrigerated MegaVendor we got from KleenRite got its tempered thermal glass front broken into thousands of little tiny pieces of glass that took several hours to completely clean up. It is located in our Laundromat so I thought it was safe. The police seem to be confident that the malicious criminal will be caught as we got good video pictures of his face etc ---- & if we show his face to enough people like the John Walsh's "America's Most Wanted" approach ---- we might even be able to assist the police. We have $1000 deductible insurance so it is definitely bad news.

I bought the MegaVendor when I was shown it by KleenRite at the 2007 Heartland Car Wash Show. I have not called KleenRite about the glass yet since it is weekend but I thought Uncle Sam or someone on the Forum can give me some advice on getting a tempered thermopane glass back in the MegaVend.

I do apologize for not going with Uncle Sam like my friend Whale in Fargo did ---- then here I am ---- wimpering back for some clues on how tough & expensive will that front glass replacement will be. I am not sure about Polycarbonate but I suppose it could be considered. I doubt if this type of an incident will happen again unless Bismarck - Mandan is becoming like some of the rough areas I read about on the forum. I do plan on stepping up my sensor level like with Bill P's kit etc.

MJ

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I wouldn't get too excited about all the ways to protect it depending on cost, why not just just replace it with glass, and then bolt some lexan over it. A little double protection, i wouldn't spend too much money on what may occur again.
I would post the pictures with a $100 washing reward. Customers will find him for you!

 

[pitzerwm]

As you know lexan is good but scratches easy. You might put the tempered back in with the lexan on the inside, so even if they break it, they still get nothing. I'd put his picture on the unit, and leave it there.

 

[Uncle Sam]

MJ,

Well, it does eventually happen, inside or outside. I can tell you right off that they will be back since it worked so good the first time if you do not protect the glass window with lexan. The cost of the triple pane glass window is not so bad, but it is a bit of a chore to install it. It has a electric heating wire that goes all the way around it to keep it from fogging up. And it is heavy and hard to handle vertically. There is a lexan kit that can be purchased that is also a bit difficult to install. It uses 1/4" steel pop rivets that are not easy to pop in with out a special rivet gun.

I'm not trying to discourage you from repairing it, but it is hard work. It not so much the local "talent" you have to worry about breaking in again; it the guys from out of town just passing through.

I doubt Kleen-Rite or Mega-Vendor will help you get the parts, but you can try. Give me a call if they won't.

Uncle Sam

 

[mjwalsh]

MJ,

Well, it does eventually happen, inside or outside. I can tell you right off that they will be back since it worked so good the first time if you do not protect the glass window with lexan. The cost of the triple pane glass window is not so bad, but it is a bit of a chore to install it. It has a electric heating wire that goes all the way around it to keep it from fogging up. And it is heavy and hard to handle vertically. There is a lexan kit that can be purchased that is also a bit difficult to install. It uses 1/4" steel pop rivets that are not easy to pop in with out a special rivet gun.

I'm not trying to discourage you from repairing it, but it is hard work. It not so much the local "talent" you have to worry about breaking in again; it the guys from out of town just passing through.

I doubt Kleen-Rite or Mega-Vendor will help you get the parts, but you can try. Give me a call if they won't.

Uncle Sam

Is the Lexan polycarbonate kit in addition to the triple pane glass or is it lieu of --- or another kit in itself that would accomplish the same insulation as the triple pane glass except much more break resistant. Like Bill P said it definitely will eventually not be as clear as glass eventually. Even, on our new dog wash we chose glass instead of polycarbonate on the door windows. So far so good there.

Your right about the --- not just the locals. We have had many new people here in western ND looking for quick employment since our unemployment is relatively low. Good thing we lock the doors at 10 PM considering that type of criminal could do over a 100 -200K worth of damage if he had more time to work with. Like I said ---- the alarm system needs to be taken to a new level again --- sometimes seconds count to minimize the damage --- & possibly get restitution.

Thanks

MJ

 

[Uncle Sam]

MJ,

The older triple pane glass is now replaced with a Kit using a dual pane glass window. The triple pane was 1 1/8-inches thick while the new kit is only 1-inch thick, so you get window retainers also. The dual pane window is for refrigeration energy savings which you would not get with lexan only. The lexan kit is to protect the glass window from just what happened to you. As everyone has said the lexan scratches easily and eventually looks bad. When we do the lexan, we sandwich an 1/8' acrylic window in front of the lexan to protect it from scratches. Acrylic is cheap but lexan is expensive.

If you have decorative trim on the front of door, the lexan kit may not fit; it all depends on the serial # of the vendor. At ShurVend we never order vendors with trim since it only causes problems and extra work at times like these. You can remove the trim and throw it away, but you will have many holes left in the door to plug up with something. We have been thru all this, so we know what it takes.

Now for costs. The two kits will cost about $350 plus freight to your location and then you have to install both. If you give us a call, be sure to have your vendor serial #.

Uncle Sam

 

[pitzerwm]

Before I put 1" of glass, I'd use expanded metal.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Before I put 1" of glass, I'd use expanded metal.

The 1" of glass is two panes with an air gap between them for insulation to keep the refrigeration working on the vendor. You might put expanded metal on the out side of the window, but it looks very bad and has sharp edges where it is cut. Besides that all it takes is a heavy screw driver and a hammer to bust out the glass again just for spite. To do it right there is no easy way.

Uncle Sam

 

[MEP001]

How hard is it to get and have cut laminated safety glass like what's used in a car windshield?

 

[sparkey]

I worked at a company that made automotive windshields a couple years ago. They did make custom lamanated glass for customers cut to size and also tempered glass cut to size (tempered cut to size was much harder to get) . The companys name was Guardian. You may want to check into a company like Guardian or PPG, LOF and see if they would custom make it for you. It wasn't that expensive either.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The idea of laminated glass is good for security considerations, but we have refrigeration fact here that has to be addressed. I mis-spoke when I said there is a dual pane glass with an air gap; it is dual pane with a vacuum space between for insulation. There also the heater wire that is used to keep fogging of the window from being a problem. The refrigeration requirement makes substitutes hard to justify; energy costs over the long haul would cost more than the cost of doing it right the first time. If there was a cheaper way to build the vendor, I'm sure it would have been used long ago.

If this was an ambient vendor one could use lexan or laminated glass without question.

Uncle Sam

 

[MEP001]

My suggestion was for laminated glass over the double-insulated glass instead of the Lexan. It's very tough to break through and won't scratch easily.

 

[mjwalsh]

Manhour cost restitution suggestion anyone?

Thanks Uncle Sam & others for the responses,

What we did is got the factory 1" glass kit 3 day select. It came a day early via UPS yesterday at noon. This morning we had the local plastics shop CNC 42"x26-5/8" 2 sheets of clear material for better accuracy on the dimensions. One 1/16" of Lexan & one 1/16" Acrylic. We left the old 1-1/8" glass retainers in to accommodate the added 1/8" of material. The theory is the softer Lexan in the middle will act as a cushion somewhat & spread the impact area. The outer Acrylic will protect the Lexan (scratches) & the thermal glass. The trim remained the same. I suppose Mep001's approach with laminated could have worked but unless it is special 1/8" laminated safety glass ---- I wonder if the Acrylic is actually more shatterproof than standard laminated safety glass would be? It is pretty hard to tell from a normal glance that there are many layers of a variety of clear material installed as the front of the machine.

Time will tell if this was the way to go. A detective called & there are some leads to catch the perpetrator & they said just because they did not catch him the same day doesn't mean that he won't get caught based on the clear video & a fingerprint & footprint (fresh snow) match potential. Since many man hours were involved in the thousands pieces of glass within the machine cleanup & new glass install etc --- I wonder what an acceptable amount would be to put in for on the MegaVendor repair --- man hours wise involved??? The police, media & potential judge are all expecting a figure from us. There was also repaired camera brackets with repositioning involved that used up several man hours too! I would not want to lose credibility with the judge ---- they tend to look for independent but knowledgeable viewpoints of labor cost ---- like set prices for specific body or mechanical work.

This was not a physical cripple doing the damage --- on the video he looked like spider man climbing up to damage the cameras etc. Also based on how bent he made the leg area of the extremely sturdy chair --- he is a person who is not even close to being physically disabled --- unable to get a manual labor job to make proper restitution.

MJ

 

[pitzerwm]

MJ, just detail the time and material, usually the judges love this type of thing.

I've had friends get money years later, because it messes with them until they pay it off.

 

[mjwalsh]

MJ, just detail the time and material, usually the judges love this type of thing.

I've had friends get money years later, because it messes with them until they pay it off.

Uncle Sam, Bill & others,

It seems like we should get the going rate for this type of work & that is what I thought we could get a better handle on ---- in case someone potentially is extremely cynical about our specific abilities to do the work in house rather than contracted out???

MJ

 

[Uncle Sam]

MJ,

Glad you got the vendor back into service. The 1/16" acrylic and polycarbonate that you put in front of the dual pane glass may or may not work. The acrylic will keep the lexan from getting scratched up, but will shatter if it is ever hit by a hammer or ??? The 1/16" lexan will provide some cushion, I guess, but it will flex badly if the window is hit very hard. The glass will shatter because there is no give to glass.

Good luck!!

Uncle Sam

 

[mjwalsh]

Follow up suggestions?

MJ,

Glad you got the vendor back into service. The 1/16" acrylic and polycarbonate that you put in front of the dual pane glass may or may not work. The acrylic will keep the lexan from getting scratched up, but will shatter if it is ever hit by a hammer or ??? The 1/16" lexan will provide some cushion, I guess, but it will flex badly if the window is hit very hard. The glass will shatter because there is no give to glass.

Good luck!!

Uncle Sam

It would be nice if this type of arrangement of 1/16" material for a glass front vendor was tested & then the info shared. If nothing else it seems it could prevent the horrific cleanup of the spiral area of thousands of tiny pieces of glass. That is saying that even with the 1/16" lexan flexing it may stop the breakage from continuing beyond the first glass layer of the double thermopane --- leaving the back to allow the shattered glass to fall downward.

This afternoon the main detective called. The man was found in Mandan & admitted to the crime & showed some of the items during a search in front of both the detective & his probation officer from a previous offense. One Class A & one Class B misdemeanor. What happens now??? Within a few weeks he will appear before a judge??? --- no need for me to be there??? I must file an itemized report of the cost. Any suggestions on how I make our odds of restitution better?

MJ

 

[MEP001]

Any suggestions on how I make our odds of restitution better?

As someone already mentioned, you'll probably never see restitution, and even if you do it will be years from now.

A layer of clear window film on the inside of the glass would both slow down their entry into the machine and help minimize the mess made when the glass is broken.