I just found out that a 55 gal drum of the meth foam brush solution I use has increased $100.00 over last years. I called my supplier and he said THAT ISN'T NOTHIN. Wait until I get the next batch, possibly at the end of Winter or next year. He said they already have the prices and a 55 gal drum will be over $500.00. #1, is anyone else finding this to be true? #2, Is there such a system out there that would use the summer solution but after the brush is not used for a specified length of time it would purge the line with the meth but when it was being used it would use the summer soap? Does this make sense? This way as long as the foam brush was flowing the summer soap would not freeze.
Checked Methonal Prices Lately?
- Thread starter Bud
- Start date
Well, I'm kinda glad I went with the system that I have. Recirculated hot water down the foam brush line. I have a pump that recirculates the hot water from my storage tank down the trough and down the foam brush lines to keep not only the trough hot but the FB also. Down side is if you lose power during an ice storm, and it's below freezing, your SOL.
pitzerwm
Active member
Galen, you might get a generator that would handle just a few things, shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
That sort of pricing doesn't make sense. It should never be higher than gasoline. Alcohol production from corn is on the rise and output will probably continue to increase. If methanol is near $10/gal, what would a bottle of scotch cost? Alcohol is used in a lot of things and as a solvent, I just can't imagine that price is correct. I paid right at $3 per gallon in the latter part of November.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
North America (Valid January 1 - January 31, 2008)
Methanex Non-Discounted Reference Price USD 2.50/Gal*
Posted December 19, 2007 USD 832/MT
* Converted to USD/MT using a conversion rate of 332.6 Gal per MT
This is the information I found while doing an online search for the price of methanol. There does seem to be some "tightness" in supply right now, but it is due in part to a voluntary shutdown of manufacturing plants that reduced the North American manufacturing capacity by 45%. In other words, the production of methanol has been reduced in recent years to keep the price up! If there is a sustained demand, production would undoubtably be turned back up. Apparently it is a main component in making OSB (oriented strand board) and the Canadians are big producers of OSB. The current tightness has caused some rationing of Methanol to the plants that make OSB.
Methanex Non-Discounted Reference Price USD 2.50/Gal*
Posted December 19, 2007 USD 832/MT
* Converted to USD/MT using a conversion rate of 332.6 Gal per MT
This is the information I found while doing an online search for the price of methanol. There does seem to be some "tightness" in supply right now, but it is due in part to a voluntary shutdown of manufacturing plants that reduced the North American manufacturing capacity by 45%. In other words, the production of methanol has been reduced in recent years to keep the price up! If there is a sustained demand, production would undoubtably be turned back up. Apparently it is a main component in making OSB (oriented strand board) and the Canadians are big producers of OSB. The current tightness has caused some rationing of Methanol to the plants that make OSB.
I.B. Washincars
Car Washer Emeritus
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If Doug were not in Florida he may know what is going on with the methanol prices. I would have thought he would be informed anyway, but evidently he is not.
We don't use winter foam brush solution anymore. Our service guy set up a system to blow air through the foam brush line after it has been used. Each bay has a separate little reostat that lets us set how long the air blows thru. It is a low pressure amount of air....during the dead of winter I set it to the max time of about 10 minutes....during the summer I turn it off. Since we have had this set up I have never had the foam brushes freeze. The only thing is that it allows the air to cycle thru even if the customer just spins the dial thru the foam brush cycle....not to big of a deal as the pressure is low and comes from the air supply that foams the soap anyway so it is only about 40PSI.
Ben's Car Wash
Conveyor & self service
I've been saving some oil from Buger King (next to my SS wash). I have about 80 gallons in 5 gallon pails to make bio-deisel for my truck. It's very simple to do... but you need methenol (HEET) to separate the water/glychol from the oil. This is one of the problems. As gas/oil prices increase, the "alterative" fuel souces become attractive... CORN has increase which is increasing the price of corn prices (why the US will never make it on Ethetol/methenol/E86). But the bio-desiel plants are cranking up and that<IMO is placing a higher demand on methenol.
Some "home brewers" are making there own methenol from lawn clippings in a carboy! You need about 20% methenol per leter of vegetable oil (recycled) to safely separate the gylcerine from the oil to make bio-desiel. Then you can "wash" it by "aerating" it with a bubbler and adding water (seems strange I know) and then heat the water again to 110 degrees to separate the water from the oil (solar is easy in Florida with a black cover).
A few month ago Methenol was $155 for a 55 gallon drum or $35 for 5 gallons. A 16 oz can of HEET as discount auto parts is $3!
I.B. Washincars
Car Washer Emeritus
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lol, I knew you wouldn't be able to leave that alone!
BTW, who is the "Buger King"? I'm assuming one of your doctor friends that specializes in sinus problems???
BTW, who is the "Buger King"? I'm assuming one of your doctor friends that specializes in sinus problems???
What is Methanol
Methanol, also known as methyl alcohol, carbinol, wood alcohol, wood naphtha or wood spirits and is produced from natural gas. It is the simplest alcohol, and is a light, volatile, colorless, flammable, poisonous liquid, 5 table spoons of Methanol will kill you, with a distinctive odor that is somewhat sweeter than ethanol (ethyl alcohol). It is used as an antifreeze, solvent, racing fuel, and as a denaturant for ethyl alcohol. Methanol is also an ingredient in paint and varnish removers. We find methanol applied in such everyday items as windshield washer fluid, fertilizers, carpets, clothing, plastics, gas dryer (Heet) and fuel for picnic stoves. It is not used in Gasohol has it is a mild acid and somewhat corrosive.
Ethanol, also known as Ethyl alcohol, drinking alcohol or grain alcohol is produced by fermentation. Just about anything that will ferment can be made into Ethanol, corn, sugar cane, sugar beets. Ethanol is added to gasoline to make Gasohol E10. The spot price of Ethanol today is $1.48 per gallon
Isopropyl alcohol also known as Rubbing Alcohol is a common name for 2-propanol. It is made from Propylene. It is used as a sterilizer, industrial solvent It is also a major ingredient in gas dryer (Heet)
Methanol, also known as methyl alcohol, carbinol, wood alcohol, wood naphtha or wood spirits and is produced from natural gas. It is the simplest alcohol, and is a light, volatile, colorless, flammable, poisonous liquid, 5 table spoons of Methanol will kill you, with a distinctive odor that is somewhat sweeter than ethanol (ethyl alcohol). It is used as an antifreeze, solvent, racing fuel, and as a denaturant for ethyl alcohol. Methanol is also an ingredient in paint and varnish removers. We find methanol applied in such everyday items as windshield washer fluid, fertilizers, carpets, clothing, plastics, gas dryer (Heet) and fuel for picnic stoves. It is not used in Gasohol has it is a mild acid and somewhat corrosive.
Ethanol, also known as Ethyl alcohol, drinking alcohol or grain alcohol is produced by fermentation. Just about anything that will ferment can be made into Ethanol, corn, sugar cane, sugar beets. Ethanol is added to gasoline to make Gasohol E10. The spot price of Ethanol today is $1.48 per gallon
Isopropyl alcohol also known as Rubbing Alcohol is a common name for 2-propanol. It is made from Propylene. It is used as a sterilizer, industrial solvent It is also a major ingredient in gas dryer (Heet)
Just along for the ride! 350SDL
I came across an operator here in CO that uses Methanol as a FB anti-freeze. He acquires his from a petroleum company that has recycled it after using it to purge diesel fuel and or other petroleum products from the oil pipe lines. The run a "Pig" through the lines. This is essentially a piston with the old diesel in front of its travel and the methanol behind it, with another "Pig", behind that with the new product that will be going through the lines.
He states that the methanol will have a slight amount of diesel in it but so little as to not affect anything and the cost is about 1/2 that of current market price.
I'm still weeping my FB's since water is easy and cheap here.
P.S. I also drive an old Mercedes diesel using recycled vegetable oil. It's a "Greasel".
I came across an operator here in CO that uses Methanol as a FB anti-freeze. He acquires his from a petroleum company that has recycled it after using it to purge diesel fuel and or other petroleum products from the oil pipe lines. The run a "Pig" through the lines. This is essentially a piston with the old diesel in front of its travel and the methanol behind it, with another "Pig", behind that with the new product that will be going through the lines.
He states that the methanol will have a slight amount of diesel in it but so little as to not affect anything and the cost is about 1/2 that of current market price.
I'm still weeping my FB's since water is easy and cheap here.
P.S. I also drive an old Mercedes diesel using recycled vegetable oil. It's a "Greasel".
Ben's Car Wash
Conveyor & self service
Buger King is what I wish I had to eat last night.... I've worked 3 15 hour days in a row at the hospital (on call) with little to eat from 6am-9pm so my typing was a liilte off (please forgive me)! It's been crazy.... and the washes are hopping too! I need to clone myself.
Apparently no one else is paying what I am/will be paying. I just called two other suppliers today and the one is $200.00 more per drum than I paid last year and the other is for straight meth which is the way I used to get it and he was also $200.00 more per drum. Pay it and forget it I guess.
pgrzes
Active member
I wonder has anyone tried to hook the weepmizer to a solonoid on the air side of the foam brush and run as you would push water through the lines??? Would mean more abuse on the compressor but should be minimal. Water/Sewer rates here in NE. Pa. is getting crazy. Just a thought.
That is what I was after, I guess. Some ideas as to what could be done. I had the idea to purge the lines with the meth after the brush was used with the summer soap. A preset time could be set to wait for the brush to be idle for a few minutes. Has anyone ever did this? Do you think it would be cost effective?
MEP001
Well-known member
I've been considering this for a while - we have mild winters, but customers do wash in sub-freezing conditions and I like to keep the foam brush in operation. My thoughts were to use a PLC to purge the brushes once after the temp drops below 35, then again after each use. It would cost less for me to rig a system than it would cost to run methanol for a month.bud said:
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
Well, I just thought I would post the current price from my supplier: today it is $2.67 per gallon. Not much difference from October of 2006 when it was $2.60 per gallon.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
I have a FB winterizer that works with summer foam and windshield washer fluid.
The system uses an Idec Smartrelay, programmed to look for the FB input from the bay. IF the temp output from the Weepmizer is ON, AND, the FB input comes ON, the program waits for the FB output to go OFF. The Smartrelay then energizes the ?anti-freeze" solenoid for that bay. The output is timed to allow the washer fluid to reach the brush.
The program also energizes ALL of the outputs when the temperature drops below the setpoint of the Weepmizer.
I?ve had only 2 or 3 brushes freeze in the 5 years the system has been in operation. I use an average of 30 gallons of washer fluid per season?from Sam?s Club?about $1/gal.
The system required a NC solenoid, a tee fitting, some ?? poly tubing and a check valve for each bay, plus a Flojet pump and pressure regulator. I draw the washer fluid from a 15 gallon drum. I already had the Weepmizer.
It works great?much better than the original air-blow-out system or the water weep system (which resulted in very large icicles hanging from the brushes). And, I get great foam year round using the same juice and ratio.
The system uses an Idec Smartrelay, programmed to look for the FB input from the bay. IF the temp output from the Weepmizer is ON, AND, the FB input comes ON, the program waits for the FB output to go OFF. The Smartrelay then energizes the ?anti-freeze" solenoid for that bay. The output is timed to allow the washer fluid to reach the brush.
The program also energizes ALL of the outputs when the temperature drops below the setpoint of the Weepmizer.
I?ve had only 2 or 3 brushes freeze in the 5 years the system has been in operation. I use an average of 30 gallons of washer fluid per season?from Sam?s Club?about $1/gal.
The system required a NC solenoid, a tee fitting, some ?? poly tubing and a check valve for each bay, plus a Flojet pump and pressure regulator. I draw the washer fluid from a 15 gallon drum. I already had the Weepmizer.
It works great?much better than the original air-blow-out system or the water weep system (which resulted in very large icicles hanging from the brushes). And, I get great foam year round using the same juice and ratio.
