Choosing a Credit Card System for Your Carwash...IN THIS ECONOMY?!!!

[Carl]

So I made a mistake! In year 2000 attending my first Car Care Expo in Las Vegas, I chose a small company to be the one that I''d buy their equipment to allow me to accept credit cards at 18 terminals at my carwash. This company went out-of-business years ago and recently my bank has told me that the Windows '98 software for processing all my credit card transactions (company didn't update their software past Windows '98) is no longer PCI compliant so by mid-Dec, they will not allow me to use it anymore!

During this horrible economy, I'm now back in the market for a credit card system to replace my current system which lasted me only 8.5 years. Had I known I'd get only 8.5 years out of this system, I'd never have invested in it!

I know there are many companies out there who can provide us carwash owners w/ this equipment, but I'm "gunshy!" Although there are probably some good, small and newer companies out there who can provide this equipment, I am only looking at three bigger companies because I need LONGEVITY and I tend to only trust the bigger companies who can "keep up" w/ fast-changing technology changes 'cause look at me now! I have a "dead" system that I have to pull out of my carwash soon. I'm embarrassed having "out-of-order" stickers on three of my terminals 'cause I can't get parts.

My point now: I am looking at only Hamilton's, Unitec's or WashCard's credit card / loyalty card systems. OH MY, these things are so, so expensive! But I feel they are necessary 'cause most of my customers use credit cards and are used to doing so at my facility. I'M LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK on your credit card system that you use at your wash even if it's not the above "big three". I need an "edge" to keep me competitive w/ the many washes that have built around me and not having a customer loyalty card system anymore nor credit card acceptability is too big a negative blow to business so I need to purchase a replacement system, but this is a huge decision to now have to make - get "cheaper stuff" that who knows how long it will last or how long the company will last that supports it or...take a chance and spend even more money w/ one of the "Big Three"? And in this economy too? (sigh)

Thanks for any feedback you guys care to share about your current system, pros & cons. - Carl

 

[MEP001]

I only have experience with Hamilton, but aside from the cost it's all been good. They've finally added the ability for self-serve customers to print a receipt for the total amount spent with the CCD unit. We don't use the customer value cards, but I know someone who does and has great success with them.

 

[DiamondWash]

I recently went with Wash Card for my Self Serves and I'm very pleased with the decision, I'm currently planning on using them for my Automatics and RFID system I still need to do a review of them here on AutoCareForum.

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I got a call this am from the people at genesys. Talked to them at the ica and they were still in design phase. All the readers are wireless. just hook to 24v and the wire that gives credit on the dixmor timer and ready to go. The controller is $350 and wireless card reader is $350. These guys are the designers and builders of all the dixmor equipment. They said the info is all encrypted and pci compliant-low cc fees and easy to hook up. there are no computers to setup-- just the $350 modem, and just add as many readers as you need including the vacuums, as they are wireless, and work for many 100's of feet. They said - mostly the newer dixmors will count up or down, but all can get a flash software upgrade to work with these readers. They said they will start shipping in the next month. I am usually the last guy to try something new, but for i want to try onewash and see how well it works.
heres the website.
John

http://www.getcryptopay.com/

 

[MEP001]

I'd really like to try that for the vacs. As much as I like the Hamilton stuff, between the hardware cost and the CC fees it's hard to justify adding it to vacs.

 

[Whale of a Wash]

With the low cost of vacuuming i think it's easier to just give someone a token if they don't have any cash. Probably makes for a better customer also. I plan to partially outfit a wash with this equipment and see if it performs.

 

[Carl]

Credit Card Systems Expensive Cost?

I've always wondered why for us carwash guys, this equipment is so, so costly whereas for storefront businesses, the equipment's so much less?

So here's something interesting ever since I first started this thread. I said I was looking at what I felt were the "Big Three" (Hamilton, WashCard & Unitec). But some have pointed out to me that there have been "large companies" that have abandoned their customers and just stopped supporting their credit card system including not making any more parts. Point being, you really do not know which companies will be around into the long-term future 'cause no one has a "crystal ball".

You've begun to mention some interesting companies that I've never heard of which after visiting their websites, seem to understand how to make this equipment work for a self-service carwash and are indeed PCI compliant so here again is my dilemma. Pay a lot less to go w/ these new companies whose equipment is a lot less expensive than the "Big Three's" or drop a whole lot more money on what's proven and what's been out there a while now that the "Big Three" offers but then have to pay and arm and a leg whenever their stuff breaks and you need an overpriced replacement card reader, for example? These new companies and their lesser priced equipment seems much more attractive when you look at parts replacement. Then the old adage haunts me, "You get what you pay for!" But do you really have to pay and arm and a leg for a reliable credit card systems? More reasonably priced companies are suddenly popping up and offering their stuff which they say will work just as well! But they have not much of a "track record" yet being so new! Decisions, decisions... - Carl

 

[MEP001]

I've always wondered why for us carwash guys, this equipment is so, so costly whereas for storefront businesses, the equipment's so much less?

Mass-production. Credit card systems for stores are often assembled out of off-the-shelf items. Most of the cost of developing a system like that is in the software. Spreading that cost among thousands of systems means they can charge less for it and make a good profit. Car wash CC hardware is unique, so both the development and manufacture of it is much more expensive.

You do make a good point about the cost of a replacement CC reader. The one Hamilton uses and charges something like $400 for costs $120 direct from ID TECH. Hamilton just programs it with their own software.

 

[soapy]

I also saw the crypto system at the WCA show and it looked pretty good. Heartland is there processor and I liked the low price of the system. Another one to consider is wash gear. I have had very good luck with their system and the processing rates are the lowest of any system that I currently use.

 

[mjwalsh]

Another credit bank card acceptance approach

drop a whole lot more money on what's proven and what's been out there a while now ---- Decisions, decisions... - Carl

Since April we have had an ATM. It is centrally located closer to our vend items & our changers & the rest room. I know that I will get a bunch of hoots & scowls --- especially from - who I feel are biased immature dollar coin haters. I agree that it is not exactly the same as in bay & on every vacuum but ATMs --- if done right should not be ruled out ---long term for some of us. The short on cash situation is addressed & I honestly believe there is less need to anticipate some horrific unexpected future expense like Carl & some others have described.

No --- not all of the dogs need to be deskunked that come into our present & future pet washes. --- so don't grab me too quick --- especially my friend Brad Quay from Hamilton & a few others.

Now after over 6 months of successful ATM use --- I am even more convinced --- that credit cards are a better fit mainly for larger transactions. This really applies --- especially during peak business times --- that a modernized up to date cash system is the best fit for many of us.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[Earl Weiss]

Mass-production. Credit card systems for stores are often assembled out of off-the-shelf items. Most of the cost of developing a system like that is in the software. Spreading that cost among thousands of systems means they can charge less for it and make a good profit. Car wash CC hardware is unique, so both the development and manufacture of it is much more expensive.

You do make a good point about the cost of a replacement CC reader. The one Hamilton uses and charges something like $400 for costs $120 direct from ID TECH. Hamilton just programs it with their own software.

I think the issue is why does it have to be unique. How much of our equipment is used only in the car wash industry. It would seem that they could borrow 90+% from another industry. How about gasoline dispensers? Perhaps the difference is gas dispensers read out in $ and wash timers read out in time. So, the dispensers provide $ info to the CC equipment.

Maybe the gasoline dispenser guys need to get involved in the Car wash industry. Another difference would be the retrofit issues. Gas dispensers have a seperate conduit foir the CC reader. But Taxicabs are all wireless transmission. Maybe the Taxi guys need to get involved?

 

[Bill Manke]

My vote goes to Washcard. I went to the ICA shows clear back when Washcard first came out. It took me about 3 yrs before I made the decision to buy it. And since then I have probably upgraded it 2 times one being a major upgrade to all new equipment. Support of any technical issues has been the best. Yes they do have a transaction charge but I figure this towards the support. Yes there are cheaper systems out there but just depends what you want to do. I also have a website through washcard so that people can buy or recharge their washcards. The website has really helped out in the appearance of our wash online. www.wavecarwash.com.

 

[MEP001]

I think the issue is why does it have to be unique. How much of our equipment is used only in the car wash industry. It would seem that they could borrow 90+% from another industry. How about gasoline dispensers? Perhaps the difference is gas dispensers read out in $ and wash timers read out in time. So, the dispensers provide $ info to the CC equipment.

That's a good point. Regardless of how the gas pump CC systems read out, they work in the same way: pre-approve an amount, turn on the pump and let you use how much you want up to the approved amount, finalize the transaction when done. I can see a downside though if it has to be integrated into a store's computer system; those are very expensive.

 

[MEP001]

Since April we have had an ATM. It is centrally located closer to our vend items & our changers & the rest room. I know that I will get a bunch of hoots & scowls --- especially from - who I feel are biased immature dollar coin haters. I agree that it is not exactly the same as in bay & on every vacuum but ATMs --- if done right should not be ruled out ---long term for some of us. The short on cash situation is addressed & I honestly believe there is less need to anticipate some horrific unexpected future expense like Carl & some others have described.

I honestly feel the "ATM at a car wash" is a stuck-in-the-80's-mentality idea. You don't get the one chief benefit that you do from CC acceptance in the bays: customers spend more. You have much of the added costs of a CC system, a chance that your hardware will suddenly be obsolete, and a greatly increased risk of break-in, all without the increased income.

I have someone tell me almost every day that they come to us because the bays take credit cards. How many customers do you think you've gained because you have an ATM?

 

[JIMT]

"the Windows '98 software for processing all my credit card transactions (company didn't update their software past Windows '98)"

I have found that software that worked on Windows '98 also works on Windows 7 with 32 bit but not on 64 bit Windows 7. I don't know if this would solve your problem with the bank.

JIMT

 

[mjwalsh]

ATM should not be ruled out by some of us seeking to upgrade CC acceptance

Mep001 & others.

I am not saying that in your area & others the CC is not a better fit. I am just saying that some operators similar to Carl may be pleasantly surprised that ATMs can be a better choice "in this economy".

From my experience with the new ATM & the "perfected" free logging both on the machine & via the Internet --- it is more proven & perfected than from what I have gathered about the wide variety of credit card acceptance that a lot of you are using. To be honest --- most of that info is from the other operators who have shared their sometimes unpleasant experiences here on this forum.

Why would there be anymore risk with the ATM than the bill changers? The same precautions & durability would be taken --- similar to what Uncle Sam does with his more durable vendors!

Based on the longevity of the ATM manufacturers & the extremely high current threshold of security they have --- I would say that there is much less risk of obsoleteness & even breakdown dilemmas etc. on them. From my observations --- I am pretty sure that the brand new 2011-2012 ATMs are technologically superior to CC & affordable than what is being offered for in bay & vacuum use.

As far as added customers --- I am sure that you gain some --- but there are other amenities & less costly high level of maintenance that could still tip the scale for the customer to choose a non credit card self service car wash over the CC one.

Based on first hand --- the now over 6 months of having the ATM --- you are wrong about implying the same ongoing costs as CC in each bay. ATM is structured completely different with the $2 plus 25 cents interchange on each credit card use --- not going out but coming in. In other words the ATM is more self supporting & not a drain off the gross bay & vacuum receipts.

Continued-----

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[mjwalsh]

continued

Mep001 & others,

Some of my fellow car wash operators should carefully read some of the ATM contracts & they may find it is much more practical than CC. As far as characterizing the 2011-2012 ATMs as mid eighties --- if it is --- it is taken from some of the better attributes of the era.

Spend more? --- LOL --- with bill acceptors those same type of generous people quite frequently put in a $5 or a $10 bill & seem to be just as care free & even put the meter on off --- which means the equivalent of them giving us a tip vs only being charged for the exact count up time. Of course ---there is that out of control pull --- to get all those significant cash rewards at the expense of the operator though.

As far as alienating customers --- in our area there are banks & credit unions that allow red tape free usage to any ATM which certainly helps to prevent that.

Once we wake up to the less usage & dependency on quarters (1973 equivalent to a nickel) & more firmly guided dollar coin usage --- that would also help the ATM - ChangeMaker Model. That is if there is not too much misguided resistance to the better current Washington DC legislation.

mike walsh of bismarck

 

[Earl Weiss]

Mep001 & others,

Some of my fellow car wash operators should carefully read some of the ATM contracts & they may find it is much more practical than CC.

Exercise extreme caution. Been approached to "lease" several ATMs with all sorts of rosy pictures painted for rebates and revenues. (This was at the gas station and Wash)

The lease was really a disguised financing arrangements so if the ATM was crap or did not perform you were stuck paying the finance company. The salesman always assured me I didn't need a recourse lease where i could cancel if there was an issue because the ATMs were so wonderful. I said O.K. if they are so wonderful you lease it from the company and sublease to me on a recoourse lease. Never had a salesperson that confident. Also found later some of the ATM companies did go bankrupt, this means the rebates were gone, the machine was crap, and people were stuck paying the lease / finance company.

 

[MEP001]

Why would there be anymore risk with the ATM than the bill changers?

It's another target for crooks who might think it's stocked with many thousands of dollars in cash.

As far as added customers --- I am sure that you gain some --- but there are other amenities & less costly high level of maintenance that could still tip the scale for the customer to choose a non credit card self service car wash over the CC one.

There are institutions here that still refund their customers the cost of using an outside ATM. Mine is not one of them. The last time I used an independent ATM to get cash it cost me $7.50 in fees. You may have a small percentage of customers that pay no ATM fees, but NONE of ours pay more than cash with credit or debit cards. I can't imagine that anyone would choose a wash with an ATM over a wash with credit card acceptance unless they simply don't have a credit/debit card.

Based on first hand --- the now over 6 months of having the ATM --- you are wrong about implying the same ongoing costs as CC in each bay. ATM is structured completely different with the $2 plus 25 cents interchange on each credit card use --- not going out but coming in. In other words the ATM is more self supporting & not a drain off the gross bay & vacuum receipts.

I neither implied anything different nor even mentioned anything on the subject.

Spend more? --- LOL --- with bill acceptors those same type of generous people quite frequently put in a $5 or a $10 bill & seem to be just as care free & even put the meter on off --- which means the equivalent of them giving us a tip vs only being charged for the exact count up time.

We have bill acceptors in the bays too, and self-serve customers still spend 20% more per vehicle with credit than cash.

I never said an ATM is generally a bad idea, but you'll never convince me that it's a better choice than a properly engineered in-bay credit card system.

 

[mjwalsh]

I can't imagine that anyone would choose a wash with an ATM over a wash with credit card acceptance unless they simply don't have a credit/debit card.

Mep001,

They need a bank or credit card to use an ATM --- the objective is to accommodate the customer who happens to run low on $5, $10, & $20 bills or "heaven forbid" --- those wonderful waterproof dollar coins.

As far as implying --- that can be a good thing & could be to whoever's credit if it is based on both quantity & quality of information & not just a sentiment.

The point I was trying to make is that as businessmen we need to look at the net gain & not just at our gross or level of activity. If there are transaction fees, percentages, monitoring costs & updates that are occurring with the CC in bay & on vacuum units that are not occurring with the ATM --- that should be given the proper weight. Your $7.50 experience certainly is not the norm across the country. The in bay CC are paying for themselves only by the actual added business whereas the ATM --- if done right is showing that it will pay for itself in a few years & is also "providing the ability to come up with cash" service.

My perception is that as an industry do not have the same playing field that a Sam's Club Gas or another large retailer who often are part owners of the credit card company. Yet we might be unwittingly proceeding to raise the bar of a little too much customer convenience along that line --- even though the costs could add up in a disproportionate way. I agree that some customers may spend more because of the quick one swipe nature of them --- whether it is worth it for us little guys to be at the mercy of even higher potential future ongoing costs --- is another story.

mike walsh king koin of bismarck