High Eff. Boiler--Elim. middle man.

[Whale of a Wash]

I am looking to replace a couple 70-80% eff. boilers with a 95% boiler.
The bid was $13,200 to yank old one and hook up a new one with an indirect water heater- the water heater can produce domestic H.water along with floor heat thru boiler. The internet has places that sell direct- I can buy larger for $5200 plus $2k for indirect water heater. The 229k btu is bigger than current floor heat-(180k minus 20%) I am thinking about this system for a couple washes and maybe a couple apt. buildings. The savings would be awesome for my climate. I would eliminate old boiler and mount new one on wall. I would have a smaller HVAC company hook it up-(-liability issues). Their price was reasonable to put the double plastic vent and air intake thru wall. This would save about $5k per installation . The one i was quoted $13k for was a unit that thru internet that was $4100-. The small co. wants to do service and install.. Am i missing something??? For the $5 large. What are your guys thoughts, as i wanted to also upgrade to new at a couple apt. buildings also-.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Burnham-ALP285-Alpine-285000-BTU-Condensing-Boiler-11347000-p

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

No you're not missing anything, many companies simply have a 2-3x markup.

FYI, the savings on my high efficiency heater has been incredibly good, I would never buy anything else.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

well, ok - maybe missing a little.
- disposal of the old heater
- delivery
- upon install, what if it doesnt work right? Basically you're paying by the hour to sort it out instead of any kind of a warranted installation.

doesnt change my opinion though, 5k is too much profit for a relatively simple install imo.

 

[Indiana Wash]

The contractors in my area all take their usual price and multiply it by 3 if the work is "commercial". I am serious. I just call contractors when I need work until I find one that is 1/3 of the rest of them. You would be amazed how close the bids come in. I needed a little concrete pad once. The bids came in at $2400 $2500 and $800.

 

[pitzerwm]

That is why I taught myself to do just about anything. If I did hire someone, I stood right there watching and asking questions. Today with the knowledge on the Internet, there isn't too many things that you can't find out about. Usually, you can screw it up twice and still be ahead. We are smart enought that if we screw it up, its only once.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

No you're not missing anything, many companies simply have a 2-3x markup.

FYI, the savings on my high efficiency heater has been incredibly good, I would never buy anything else.

Paul what high efficient water heater do you have?
How much btu's?

 

[Whale of a Wash]

Thanks guys. It looked too simple to pay so much, for just the hook up of water , gas, and electricity. The internet guy gives free shipping also. I'm sure it may take a couple of hours to install, but i want to upgrade a few and thought the price was on the ridiculous side. 2x to3x plus $120hr labor, Makes me want to start a HVAC company.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks guys. It looked too simple to pay so much, for just the hook up of water , gas, and electricity. The internet guy gives free shipping also. I'm sure it may take a couple of hours to install, but i want to upgrade a few and thought the price was on the ridiculous side. 2x to3x plus $120hr labor, Makes me want to start a HVAC company.

Where did you find the boiler on-line? With my dad being an HVAC guy, I don't any reason I couldn't tackle it in a similar fashion...

 

[Whale of a Wash]

The link is on the top posting, pex supply. I also want a 100g indirect water heater to supply the wash with hot water. Those are like $1800 but look like they will give me at least 235g an hour of 135f water so probably alot more at 120f. I want to dump the 50-60% eff. palomas and go up to 95% on hot water and on the floor heat. Buying direct would probably have a couple year payback.
Having a skilled father would be a big bonus.

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I would still like to know which one is the best to buy if anyone has any info

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Paul what high efficient water heater do you have?
How much btu's?

What I meant was I would never buy anything other than high efficiency.

When I installed the new high efficiency water heater 10 years ago, I didnt have too many options because there were not many high efficiency units on the market. I ended up with a bradford white EF 100T 250E 3N(A), 100 gal tank, 199MBTU. I use it for heating wash water, soap mixing tanks, and RO input. Not floor heat. Its rated at 99.1% efficient. 5 bay SS, and yes it keeps up with no problem at all.

Since there are more options available today I'd shop around, but I'm very happy with the unit I have so it would be on my list. My biggest issue with bradford white was that they wont sell direct, you have to be a licensed plumber. (fortunately I have connections )

btw - the 20% difference in efficiency between a 70% and a 90% efficiency heater does translate almost directly to a 20% reduction in gas usage. (almost.)

 

[Buzzie8]

This diagram and site might help. Let me know if it is good information or not.

http://www.radiantcompany.com/heatsources/Takagischematics.shtml

 

[JMMUSTANG]

Thanks Paul.
I have my original 35 yrs. old 1.1 million btu boiler for my wash water that needs to be replaced this spring.
I've been looking at the tankless water heaters or a boiler under 200,000 btu's.
If I have under 200,000 btu's it does not get inspected by the county which cost $75-100 every year.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

The link is on the top posting, pex supply. I also want a 100g indirect water heater to supply the wash with hot water. Those are like $1800 but look like they will give me at least 235g an hour of 135f water so probably alot more at 120f. I want to dump the 50-60% eff. palomas and go up to 95% on hot water and on the floor heat. Buying direct would probably have a couple year payback.
Having a skilled father would be a big bonus.

Are you looking for one single boiler that will heat both your hot water and your floor heat? That would definitely be optimal in my opinion.

John

 

[soapy]

I have 3 Voyager hot water heaters that are 199,00 btus. They are 100 gallon tanks I believe and have seperated inputs and outputs for auxilary heating to function as a boiler for floor heat. They are 95+ effeciency. All have worked well at the 3 locations I have them in. I bought them after I already had floor heat boilers but I would not hesitate to use them in a dual mode system to heat water and do flor heat at the same time.

 

[Whale of a Wash]

My plan is to have floor heat and hot water all at 95% efficiency. The palomas are all at 60% and current floor heat is 80%. The indirect water heaters are about $2k but would utilize the boiler year round and only on a few very busy days run out for a half hour or so with cooler water. Currently the ph-16s with 120k btu are only able to put out 100 degree water, but are old and 50-60% eff. Part of the upgrades on the wash are for savings and part to make it more attractive with newer equip when i sell them.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

My plan is to have floor heat and hot water all at 95% efficiency. The palomas are all at 60% and current floor heat is 80%. The indirect water heaters are about $2k but would utilize the boiler year round and only on a few very busy days run out for a half hour or so with cooler water. Currently the ph-16s with 120k btu are only able to put out 100 degree water, but are old and 50-60% eff. Part of the upgrades on the wash are for savings and part to make it more attractive with newer equip when i sell them.

Did you end up doing this install? I am saving up my quarters for a similar system this fall before we get into the cold weather. What did you end up doing?

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I am still looking at options,but just got a estimate from Carwashboilers.com
for A 210K Lochinvar 98%eff. Pretty good price--I will email it you. Really impressed with how programmable their system is. Talked to them at ICA.