I hear stories every now and then about someone renting a car in Europe that gets 60 to 70 mpg. It's usually a small diesel engine thing, mostly VWs, with a 5 speed transmission. I can not ever find anything on these though. Do they exist?
High mpg cars
- Thread starter mac
- Start date
MEP can you name the make and models? I've heard that the reason they are not sold in the states, if you can believe this, is that they don't meet our EPA regs. So here is a car that gets double the gas mileage of domestic cars, but is more polluting than a Chevy or Toyota. I'm thinking of buying one of these, have it shipped to Canada, and just drive it home. Our government is saying we need to increase efficiency to 40 mpg, when there are cars available that almost diuble that. Am I off base again, or is this doable?
Whale of a Wash
5 Washes 36Bays 2Vectors
In 1984 i had a 1982 VW Jetta Diesel 48hp that would
do 55-60mpg especially with a 55mph speed limit.
It did about 43-45 in town. Still see a few of the rare ones
like that or the 1982 VW pickup around. I remember being in the
hills of tenn., and top speed about 35 going up hill. People are not
all that interested in MPG, we have no one buying chevy volts,
I see more New Shelby 600hp Mustangs at the Wash. I have
a Nissan 2010 HEV or Hybrid electric Vehicle. 200hp gas and electric
combined, and gets around 35mpg city or Highway. If cooler and not
so much A/C-- it will do closer to 38MPG. My altima was discontinued
in 2011 -probably for lack of interest. They only sold them in 8
states, but i absolutely love the car. It is fast, economical,decent
looking, and 10 times the car my VW was. I bought mine at the
Mannheim auto auction for $14.5K with 30K mi. I probably could
not see paying the $30K new price. If gas was close to
europes prices they would all want those european econoboxes,
and the pickups and SUV's wouldn't sell.
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/altima-hybrid/2010/
do 55-60mpg especially with a 55mph speed limit.
It did about 43-45 in town. Still see a few of the rare ones
like that or the 1982 VW pickup around. I remember being in the
hills of tenn., and top speed about 35 going up hill. People are not
all that interested in MPG, we have no one buying chevy volts,
I see more New Shelby 600hp Mustangs at the Wash. I have
a Nissan 2010 HEV or Hybrid electric Vehicle. 200hp gas and electric
combined, and gets around 35mpg city or Highway. If cooler and not
so much A/C-- it will do closer to 38MPG. My altima was discontinued
in 2011 -probably for lack of interest. They only sold them in 8
states, but i absolutely love the car. It is fast, economical,decent
looking, and 10 times the car my VW was. I bought mine at the
Mannheim auto auction for $14.5K with 30K mi. I probably could
not see paying the $30K new price. If gas was close to
europes prices they would all want those european econoboxes,
and the pickups and SUV's wouldn't sell.
http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/altima-hybrid/2010/
pitzerwm
Active member
Recently, someone sent me some info on this. Apparently the VW engine is made in the US but isn't allowed to be sold here. I would imagine that the EPA is just as strict in Europe. The reasoning is that gas taxes pay for our roads and if that was cut the roads would suffer. Right now DC doesn't have a clue, so don't hold your breath for smart decisions.
seattleguy
Member
I had a tiny 3 cylinder gas manual transmission fiat as my last rental in Italy. It was really small. Don't we have more onerous safety standards that add weight?
BigLeo, I'm really not that concerned about the legality of getting it here, only the economics of it. I'm thinking it would be easy to license it in Canada and just drive across. I mean they let thousands of illegals through the borders. There are border crossings between Canada and us that are not even manned, or paid any attention to.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Mac,
Vehicles set up for natural gas may be a consideration. Long term outlook for cost benefits for using NG in vehicles is looking better & better.
Just think. Being able to fill up at home & not at gas stations who may or may not have car washes could be a good thing. Since this is an under a car & fun category
... do I dare say that everyone here will agree 100% on this one for a change ... & all the politics for doing or not doing it should be put aside. Especially, at one third the cost or less & less polluting.It appears that safety has already been addressed.
http://www.oringcngfuelsystems.com/is-cng-safe/
mike
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
What do you base your above statement on?
http://www.wingpowersystem.com/natural-gas/advantages
Be a good boy & show us
... that you based your statement on solid information that is credible. I know I try to be a good boy !We are open to good reasoning when that happens though
!
Whale of a Wash
5 Washes 36Bays 2Vectors
Right now there is a big cost benefit to CNG or
compressed Natural gas at $.65 for a therm or 100,000BTU
Straight gas is $3.49 for a gallon at 121000 BTU. Most of the gas
has alcohol in it, so btu's are even lower.
When it comes to safety - our cars are amazing with the airbags and
crumple zones. 2 yrs ago going between washes, at supper time a drunk
driver blew a stop sign at 60+ and hit me. All those safety items
on the car saved me, but not sure what those miniature cars would
be like if a suburban would hit you. Some of the stupid US standards
-not so bad when you need them.
compressed Natural gas at $.65 for a therm or 100,000BTU
Straight gas is $3.49 for a gallon at 121000 BTU. Most of the gas
has alcohol in it, so btu's are even lower.
When it comes to safety - our cars are amazing with the airbags and
crumple zones. 2 yrs ago going between washes, at supper time a drunk
driver blew a stop sign at 60+ and hit me. All those safety items
on the car saved me, but not sure what those miniature cars would
be like if a suburban would hit you. Some of the stupid US standards
-not so bad when you need them.
MEP001
Well-known member
I base it on having talked to a number of people who operate a vehicle on CNG.mjwalsh said:
Your link only shows that CNG is cheaper in price, not that a vehicle is cheaper to operate on it. That's like saying one barrel of soap is cheaper to use because it's half the cost of another without taking into consideration the more expensive one can wash three times as many cars.
pitzerwm
Active member
I think you be wrong MEP
bighead
Member
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Yes, the US EPA has stricter standards than the European equivalent, especially in regards to diesels. VW had to discontinue their TDI program in the US temporarily back in '05 to adjust to new US standards. Right now, if we loosened our standards on emissions we would see a drastic increase in MPG in vehicles. Everyone has heard the rumors of injecting steam or water into a carb or EFI system and gaining significant fuel mileage, but the only problem with that system is that it is not compatible with our current catalytic converters, thus our entire 40 year old emission program would have to change. (our government isn't good at change, or fixing potholes, and now they are in charge of healthcare)
The CNG pencils out if you put a lot of miles on your car/truck... so typically commercial use only. Usually its a bifuel setup where you start off on gas, and during long flat stretches you switch over. The advantage of CNG is that it burns so clean typically the top end of the motor (and motor oil itself) will last a lot longer and stay cleaner. But the systems are expensive (thus the long payback.) And finding a fueling station is tough. If they allowed home fueling stations that would change things a lot, but i know for right now at least in my state it isn't legal.
The CNG pencils out if you put a lot of miles on your car/truck... so typically commercial use only. Usually its a bifuel setup where you start off on gas, and during long flat stretches you switch over. The advantage of CNG is that it burns so clean typically the top end of the motor (and motor oil itself) will last a lot longer and stay cleaner. But the systems are expensive (thus the long payback.) And finding a fueling station is tough. If they allowed home fueling stations that would change things a lot, but i know for right now at least in my state it isn't legal.
Indiana Wash
Member
The VW diesels get better gas mileage in Europe. The difference is in the emissions, I believe. They ran a test a couple years ago in Popular Science between a European VW Golf and a Toyota Prius. The VW Golf TDI got better gas mileage and had less harmful emissions than the Prius! I am considering a diesel Passat, but the gas mileage isn't that spectacular with the US emissions on it.
I considered running LP in my 280Z with a SR20DET motor. It has a standalone fuel management system. The stoich on LP is 20% less than gas, so it would take 25% more LP but LP was significantly cheaper than gas. I finally decided that the risk factor was not worth it in a 1970's car.
I considered running LP in my 280Z with a SR20DET motor. It has a standalone fuel management system. The stoich on LP is 20% less than gas, so it would take 25% more LP but LP was significantly cheaper than gas. I finally decided that the risk factor was not worth it in a 1970's car.
mjwalsh, I think you are right on about the cost savings for natural gas. Thanks to fracking we are able to get vast ammounts more of natural gas than before. I've been trying to educate myself on commodities and have been following the cost of it. Right now due to the greater supply, natural gas is selling for just 20% of what it was 5 years ago. The largest fleet of trash haulers in Florida is switching their trucks over to this. Saving money and reducing emmisions. For someone like me that travels a lot this would not be an option as there aren't that many refueling places. I still want that 60 mpg VW.
