Powerain Touchless IBA
- Thread starter toxc107
- Start date
millertime355
New member
A list of problems would be helpful.
Unless your problem is seals and bearings going out on the spinners... that's just normal.
As for the seals and bearings on the spinners, we have come up with a much simpler solution to eliminate them. I modify a high quality spinning swivel, attach it to the frame, and completely remove the hydraulic motors, hoses, and fittings, for the spinners. You still have the other hydraulics to contend with, but this mod helps a lot. The other issues are going to be related to having the expensive pump and motors on the gantry. You'll have to live with them. An extensive preventative maintenance program helps, but that is difficult to do since you have to remove about 100 fasteners just to remove the panels for an inspection. While this does a good job washing when set up properly, it was not designed to be user friendly.
I apologize for not being more specific. I guess the biggest problem we are having is with just keeping it running. It seems like something is constantly wrong with it. What all preventative maintenance should be done on it? We lube the four fittings on each spinner but that is about all the maintenance we do other than washing the bay down. There has to be more. A big problem we have constantly is that both tracks are three piece tracks and they CONSTANTLY need to be re-welded or the machine gets stuck between the sections of track until we give it a nudge. Thanks for the help guys.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
I have had a Powerain since 1994 (they originally called it the "Husky"). I think I have seen everything that can possibly go wrong with these units. With regards to the tracks, I have taken the nuts off by heating them with an oxy-actylene torch and then re-shimmed the tracks using a rotating laser. I used heavy galavanized washers and used whatever was required to bring the track level (except for the first section, you really DO want a SLIGHT downslope to the home position). After you bolt the track down, you'll have to re-check and add/remove a washer here and there. Once it is all done, rent a gas-powered welder and weld the joints, and then grind them smooth. Eventually you'll develop ripples in the track that will make the machine shake and vibrate and damage the lights and other components. The long-term solution is proper bedding for the tracks (never done) and one piece tracks (last time I checked it would cost about $1,000 for each). It will still develop the ripples because of the massive load and inherent slipping. Pointless anyways, because by then every piece of plumbing will be corroded beyond repair and whole sections will have to be torn out and replaced. I have replaced every hose, bearing, swivel (many many times), motors (yes every hydraulic motor too), many signal lights, and pumps; along with countless photo-eyes, proximity sensors and 1 baseplate PLC. I even have my own handheld programmer and have my "custom program" saved on a memory card. I shutdown my automatic bay last spring and don't know if I will ever reopen it. It never was very profitable (made about $1.50 on my top wash - which sold for $5). The most washes we ever did was about 12,000 in 2001 and by 2006 we were only doing about 4,000 per year. The wash sits still now with about 80,000 washes on it and it is wore out. There are some fundamental design issues with these washes that I find life-limiting. You may conquer the track issue only to run headlong into the next.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
Mac, I would interested in hearing about your "swivel modification". Do you angle the nozzles and let the high pressure provide rotation? You must have a "pre-soak arch" on your machine, my old model runs the pre-soak thru the rotating swivels. If the swivels didn't rotate (and they wouldn't if they were not powered during low pressure functions), I would have terrible presoak coverage. Maybe I would resurrect the old girl if I could simplify some of the components.
I checked your profile and didn't see any location listed, are you anywhere near Ohio? I might like to take a peek at your modifications, with your permission -of course.
I checked your profile and didn't see any location listed, are you anywhere near Ohio? I might like to take a peek at your modifications, with your permission -of course.
Jim, I haven't figured out how to edit my profile yet. I'll ask Bill to show me when he's here for the show. I'm in Florida. On the machines I've done this to, they have a seperate chemical manifiold. The high pressure makes the wands rotate by just turning SLIGHTLY off center. Works just fine.
Mr. Clean
Member
Galen is right on! This machine is enticing Except for the antiquated activation system. We put the Virtual Treadle on our Laser a few years ago and the response has been fantastic; the problems few. Still haven't perfected keeping them centered in the bay - maybe some parking curbing parallel to the walls or a center stripe. Any suggestions?
Mr. Clean
Member
Galen is right on! This machine is enticing Except for the antiquated activation system. We put the Virtual Treadle on our Laser a few years ago and the response has been fantastic; the problems few. Still haven't perfected keeping them centered in the bay - maybe some parking curbing parallel to the walls or a center stripe. Any suggestions?
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
I think Mr. Clean posted his repsonse in the wrong thread here. Galen hasn't offered his wit and wisdom anywhere in this thread. Further, there is nothing about Laser's and virtual treadles in this thread either.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
Mac, would you mind telling me what specific swivel you used for the conversion? I have a metal fabricating business, so the rest of the job wouldn't be an issue. Good quality swivels aren't cheap and I'd just as soon not get into trying different models, when you have apparently figured out what works.
Regards,
Jim
Regards,
Jim
Yes they are.
I too would be interested in any information you have on your "retrofits". Our unit has been down for over a month due to it getting stuck in the middle of the wash process. First they thought it was an electrical issue, then it must be the valves, then it must be the rollers, then it must be the tracks, now they say we need to replace our hyraulic pump. Powerain is thus far offering us NO support on the unit so any support you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
One thing to try is to rent a laser level and check the track for level. It is possible that due to settling of the anchors and track deformation that you have developed a "valley" in your rails. The next thing to look at is the paralellism of the track. If your rails are spreading apart or squeezing together, this can cause the rollers to rub against the side flanges. The last thing I can suggest is to look for significantly different roller diameters. You are only driving 2 rollers, so those should match fairly closely. If not, the roller with the larger diameter will pull that side forward and result in "racking" the gantry and causing it to jam. You can mix & match rollers from the 4 corners to optimize the situation. The "freewheeling rollers" will travel at their own independent speed. When the machine stops, hit the "Emergency Stop" button and examine the position of the rollers. Look for any "wedging action" and racking of the gantry. If you think the wash is racked & jammed, try pushing on the side that is lagging behind (you may need to pry it with a long lever). Then, pull the "Emergency Stop" button back out and see if the wash resumes.
I am assuming that you will be using your own car and not a customer's vehicle while evaluating the wash.
If you have hydraulic motors with "case drain" lines, one or both motors could be leaking internally and bypassing fluid back to the reservoir. You have no way of knowing if this is taking place. You could swap motors from the easiest to get at swivels, and see if that helps.
I am assuming that you will be using your own car and not a customer's vehicle while evaluating the wash.
If you have hydraulic motors with "case drain" lines, one or both motors could be leaking internally and bypassing fluid back to the reservoir. You have no way of knowing if this is taking place. You could swap motors from the easiest to get at swivels, and see if that helps.
Jim Caudill
Self Serve Operator
Continued.
Electrically, if you have a "leaking" proximity sensor, the machine will falsely sense that it is at the end of the track and stop moving. This occurs because the track settles and the proximity sensor has been striking the "end of track" hoops at the front end of the wash track system. Over time, this has resulted in the bottom of the proximity sensor being rubbed away and cracking. Check for clearance between the sensor and hoop.
Check the prox sensor first as it is the easiest. Identify which indicator on the PLC shows when a signal is being sent by the "end of track" proximity sensor. When the wash stops, look for a "false positive" indication. Sometimes, the damaged sensor will work OK when dry, but malfunction as soon as it gets wet. I think I have gotten a mild shock from running my fingers over the bottom face of a prox sensor that was cracked. You can removed it fairly easily and turn it over and look for "cracks" and "swipe marks".
As I have said before, I think I have seen (and repaired) most everything on my wash. That is part of why I shut it down, and have been operating as a Self-Serve only. It has worn out 3 times over and only has about 75,000 washes. Of course, it does have about 14 years of chemical/water exposure as well.
One thing I forgot, make sure that when you adjust track height, you do have a slight slope at the front end to insure the gantry "homes". If it doesn't home, it will not cycle for the next wash. Jeesh, why don't you ask some simple questions? My expertise cost a lot less than your typical repair tech; and it's worth every penny you paid for it.
Electrically, if you have a "leaking" proximity sensor, the machine will falsely sense that it is at the end of the track and stop moving. This occurs because the track settles and the proximity sensor has been striking the "end of track" hoops at the front end of the wash track system. Over time, this has resulted in the bottom of the proximity sensor being rubbed away and cracking. Check for clearance between the sensor and hoop.
Check the prox sensor first as it is the easiest. Identify which indicator on the PLC shows when a signal is being sent by the "end of track" proximity sensor. When the wash stops, look for a "false positive" indication. Sometimes, the damaged sensor will work OK when dry, but malfunction as soon as it gets wet. I think I have gotten a mild shock from running my fingers over the bottom face of a prox sensor that was cracked. You can removed it fairly easily and turn it over and look for "cracks" and "swipe marks".
As I have said before, I think I have seen (and repaired) most everything on my wash. That is part of why I shut it down, and have been operating as a Self-Serve only. It has worn out 3 times over and only has about 75,000 washes. Of course, it does have about 14 years of chemical/water exposure as well.
One thing I forgot, make sure that when you adjust track height, you do have a slight slope at the front end to insure the gantry "homes". If it doesn't home, it will not cycle for the next wash. Jeesh, why don't you ask some simple questions? My expertise cost a lot less than your typical repair tech; and it's worth every penny you paid for it.
Last edited:
pitzerwm
Active member
I had the drive motors go out and needed rebuilding too.
splashwash
New member
If anyone is removing their spinners I would be interested in purchasing a few. You can contact me at Splashwash@cox.net. I would be interested in a spare PLC etc., too. With the exception of rebuilding spinners I have had great luck with my machine. Well over 100k washes and working great.
