Best shut-off valve for weep?

[slash007]

I keep thinking of things, so I'll relay them as they come in! Are you getting any "Water Hammer" when your weep solenoid kicks on and off? If you are, this may be causing the crud to break loose and clog your guns...If this is happening, you might need to add a Water Hammer Arrestor...


I know what you mean about loosing sleep. We've owned our wash for 2 years now....I lost sleep every night for 2 years intill just recently, when I got the floor heat boiler installed and working. That was the last thing on my list to get done. For 2 years I found myself waking up EVERY NIGHT about 3:00 a.m. and "Working" on "Something"...Laying there knowing I had to get up in just a few hours and couldn't turn it off to get back to sleep. Really frustrating...Only positive side to that, I figured a lot out between 3:00 and 5:30 a.m.!!! So I feel your pain, been there done that!

I don't have any water hammer, but I do appreciate the thought you are putting into it! Any suggestions help, you never know which one might do the trick. I thawed out the two bays that were frozen and just left the lines hanging without reattaching anything to the hose that comes from the ER. That way I should know if the problem is from the end of the line to the gun.

What did you end up putting in for floor heat? This wash has a crappy setup that barely covers the inside of the bays and doesn't really do a good job. And it's not setup to a thermostat, so when I want to use it I have to turn on the circ pump and then the burners. Pretty annoying so I barely use it.

I thought about using the heat tape to get by, but I really want to get to the root of the problem first. Plus there is only about a month of winter left, so it's not worth doing at this point. It says that it works on copper and plastic, so not sure if it is even an option. Appreciate the thought though.

 

[slash007]

Just an update, last night it went down to 7 degrees with a windshield of -6 and this morning nothing was frozen. As a disclaimer though, at 23 degrees I turned on my manual override so that I wasn't using the weepmizer and I also changed over to hot water. That is what I have done over the years with good results, but this year I really wanted to use the weepmizer and the NO solenoid that goes with it so that I could minimize the work I had to do to prevent freezing and to save money. I haven't been blaming the weepmizer because I use it at the other car wash I own and haven't really had any issues. It is a much newer wash with no galvanized lines and is more shielded from the wind, so not sure how much effect that has. I did have one bay freeze up at the newer wash this morning and that is the first freeze up I've had, but I'm blaming myself for not turning up the weep pressure like I did last time it went into single digits.

 

[Bud]

I have had weep issues for years at both my washes. I have to be very vigilant and frequently check the flow. One winter I had a couple bays freezing every now and then and couldn't figure it out. At the same time I occasionally had a tank overflowing in the morning if it were not busy. It turned out I had 2 pump heads "washed" out and the way the pumps are plumbed the weep was going to the tanks and sometimes not knowing that because whenever someone would use the water in the tank it would not overflow. There were no signs at the pumps. Other than that I have had flow issues for years. At first I thought it was the needle valves I was using, that maybe they had o'rings inside and they were swelling shut etc. I went thru many many different configurations to no avail. I use regulators and no regulators. I am using small ball valves at one was and regulate the pressure with the ball valve coming into the solenoid. The other wash I use a regulator and needle valves. I still do not have an answer. Just when I think I have solved it I check the flows and some are down. They will not stay the same. I do use weepmizers at factory settings. Back to the drawing board I guess.

 

[slash007]

Wow, I definitely understand what you are talking about. I haven't tried regulators, but I have switched parts and components right and left. I went to needle valves, went away from them and so on. I just installed the weepmizer this year and it has been the worst I've had, so it can't be a coincidence. I don't think it's the flow rate, but maybe the constant starting and stopping. For years I have just turned on a manual over ride valve to let the water flow continuously whenever I knew it was going to be below freezing. Then anything below 20 I would weep hot water. I installed the weepmizer with the hopes that I could avoid having to intervene so much. I also tried weeping more water to avoid using hot, but so far neither has worked. I'll keep tinkering away an hope for the best. About all I can really do.

 

[2Biz]

To be quite honest...Aside from my outside truck bays freezing twice, I have had pretty good luck with the weepmizer. When I had the freezeups early in the season, it was gun related or tip blockage...

My weepmizer is set to factory settings, but here is the kicker. Now that my floor heat boiler is working, it raises the temperature in the bays as much as 8-10 degrees depending on outside temperature and whether the wind is blowing. My Weepmizer thermostat is inside a bay next to the ceiling, where heat is trapped.

Anyway, even though the weepmizer is seeing warmer than actual temperatures, I haven't had a freezup even down to 0°. I Weep cold water and have even tested the weep system down to 15° without trough heat...

I'm wondering if the galvanize pipe is freezing because of different reasons. I have HP hose all the way from my pumps to the bays. 3/8" ID hose. Is your pipe bigger ID? If so, maybe there is more volumn of water in your lines compaired to ours. It stays in the lines longer, alowing it to freeze where ours gets pushed through at a much faster rate. Again, grabbing at straws?
BTW, my trough is a 5" piece of plastic pipe with a strip cut out of the top of the pipe. My lines lay in the pipe and then I fill the pipe with insulation (Wrapped in plastic) to keep the air out....

 

[slash007]

To be quite honest...Aside from my outside truck bays freezing twice, I have had pretty good luck with the weepmizer. When I had the freezeups early in the season, it was gun related or tip blockage...

My weepmizer is set to factory settings, but here is the kicker. Now that my floor heat boiler is working, it raises the temperature in the bays as much as 8-10 degrees depending on outside temperature and whether the wind is blowing. My Weepmizer thermostat is inside a bay next to the ceiling, where heat is trapped.

Anyway, even though the weepmizer is seeing warmer than actual temperatures, I haven't had a freezup even down to 0°. I Weep cold water and have even tested the weep system down to 15° without trough heat...

I'm wondering if the galvanize pipe is freezing because of different reasons. I have HP hose all the way from my pumps to the bays. 3/8" ID hose. Is your pipe bigger ID? If so, maybe there is more volumn of water in your lines compaired to ours. It stays in the lines longer, alowing it to freeze where ours gets pushed through at a much faster rate. Again, grabbing at straws?
BTW, my trough is a 5" piece of plastic pipe with a strip cut out of the top of the pipe. My lines lay in the pipe and then I fill the pipe with insulation (Wrapped in plastic) to keep the air out....

Your trough is better then mine lol. Mine is just the lines running in the steel beams on top of each bay the covered by a wood board. There is not joisted roof, just metal sheeting as a roof, so everything is accessible from the bay itself. The galvanized lines are in the ER and then changeover to hose before they leave, so that can't be freezing first as I have a heater in the ER. I was curious, what material are the hose ends made of?

 

[Randy]

Are you still having problems with freeze ups?

 

[slash007]

Are you still having problems with freeze ups?

It's been above freezing for the past few days so no freeze ups this week, but it is going to be low 23 tonight. The high is 41 tomorrow so I figured that if anything froze tonight hopefully it would just thaw out on it's own by the early afternoon. I did get all of my new hoses and fittings in, so just need to find a time to switch out the galvanized. Are the hose fittings made out of stainless steel?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Are the hose fittings made out of stainless steel?

No, they are just regular hydraulic fittings like any auto parts store would use.

 

[Randy]

No, they are just regular hydraulic fittings like any auto parts store would use.

Do you mean Plated Steel

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I know they are steel, because they rust. Plated steel sounds good to me.

 

[slash007]

I know they are steel, because they rust. Plated steel sounds good to me.

They do rust, I was just curious about corrosion when hooking them up to other metals.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I had issues at one wash, where the same fitting on all three pump stands would corrode and start leaking within a few months. I posted a picture of the fitting and the plumbing set-up here and no one had any real good solutions. I ended up installing a stainless steel gun swivel in that spot and pretty much cured the problem. Other than that, the fittings normally outlast the hose.

 

[2Biz]

My hose ends are all steel. I don't seem to have any issues with rusting or corrosion. Maybe their plated like Randy suggested...I wouldn't spend the money for S.S. When the hose goes bad, so will $30 worth of hose ends...

 

[Twodose]

I set them about 10 years ago and haven't had to touch them since. So I would have to say I like them a lot. I have one ASCO normally open solenoid valve that controls the weep water. The ASCO valve is controlled by the Dixmor DX1000 Weepmizer. It’s all worked flawlessly for over 15 years.

Randy, which asco valve do u use? Part #.

 

[Twodose]

I have been using these settings for years without a freeze up.

Weepmizer Settings:

At 35°
By 25°
To 15°

P1 = 01:00
P1 = 30%

P2 = 01:00
p2 = 60%

P3 = 01:00
P3 = 90

Its gonna freeze when the temp start dropping, so put more water out when the temp start dropping fast, you never know when this is going to happen, i have been using these settings for years without a freeze up with the temp going to -20, using 2 sensors, when the temps drop they sometimes drop fast so better to be safe then sorry, when i used the default settings i used to get freeze ups, this is also using cold water at about 70 psi.

 

[slash007]

My hose ends are all steel. I don't seem to have any issues with rusting or corrosion. Maybe their plated like Randy suggested...I wouldn't spend the money for S.S. When the hose goes bad, so will $30 worth of hose ends...

I get my hoses from KleenRite. Guess I was wondering if hooking up whatever comes on the hoses to brass would cause corrosion.

 

[2Biz]

I think this is the best you can do. Your galvanized piping has been in there many many years and is now causing issues. I'm sure it was fine in the beginning. Your HP hoses won't last as long as the galvanized pipe, so they will be changed out long before corrosion is a problem. So hooking the "Steel" fittings to either brass or S.S. won't cause you any issues. Its the Galvanize thats causing problems since it has been in there so long.

 

[Randy]

Randy, which asco valve do u use? Part #.

I use a Normally Open ASCO Red Hat 110 volt ½” 8210G34, Kleen-Rite #SA216. You could also use a Normally Open ASCO Red Hat 110 volt 3/8” 8210G33, Kleen-Rite #SA250.

 

[2Biz]

I use the Asco SA216 1/2" 110v valve like Randy uses. I had a 1/2" Dema and it gave me fits. Since I changed to the Asco, I haven't had the first issue with it...I feel its worth the extra $$$