Foam brush plumbing...Attn: 2Biz

[MEP001]

I have to agree except for this one time when I got to the wash..A teenage girl was in the bay using the Tri-foam. She had it piled on her car so thick you couldn't even tell what kind of car it was. She was also painting the walls a Pretty Blue, Red, and Yellow!

She took a picture of it and was sending it to all her friends. I let her go, thinking what the Hell, maybe it will bring in more business. Although I did tell her, she was going to have to clean all that off the walls....She did...But she sure was having fun.

BTW...(3) five gallon buckets of tri-foam soap lasts me about a year @ 120-1...It doesn't get used like you'd think.

My experience has been about the same - people were fascinated by it at first, and parents would let their kids go around painting the car with it. The chemicals may sell three times as much up front, but in the long run they aren't selling any more than if it was one color. It costs about $600 a year in chems for it, but it brings in customers that use it and pay even more rinsing it off.

 

[cantbreak80]

So, what is the tri-foam chemistry? Soap? Polish? Wax? Foam trap?

Seems to me if customers find it initially “fascinating” but time-consuming, they quickly learn to avoid its application…especially if there is no appreciable improvement in the wash quality.

With lackluster usage, as might be indicated by the longevity of the raw materials, maybe the investment in equipment and the cost of goods should be reevaluated?

You’ve got the “Sizzle” but nobody buys the “Steak”?!?

Why not convert the tri-foam gun system to one-color foaming pre-soak? Or, tri-color foaming brush? Or, even one-color foaming brush? With a bit of re-engineering, the tri-color system could dispense foaming pre-soak AND foaming tire cleaner.

Now, you’ve got the Steak and the Sizzle that actually generates some revenue.

 

[MEP001]

So, what is the tri-foam chemistry? Soap? Polish? Wax? Foam trap?

That would depend on the particular product being used.

Seems to me if customers find it initially “fascinating” but time-consuming, they quickly learn to avoid its application…especially if there is no appreciable improvement in the wash quality.

I haven't seen any sign of customers "avoiding" it. I keep it pretty wet and very strong so they can get fast coverage and a good show. I'm using Simoniz UVP which actually recommends the product be "mitted" into the surface, and I've seen quite a few customers applying it and using the brush, a towel or a mitt to agitate it. I don't hand wax my truck, and I see a noticeable difference in the shine of the finish if I do that to half the hood.

With lackluster usage, as might be indicated by the longevity of the raw materials, maybe the investment in equipment and the cost of goods should be reevaluated?

I'd like to see how yours applies the product compared to how I have it set up and see if perhaps you might reevaluate your system's potential.

I've considered giving the customer the option of applying the tri-foam through the gun or the brush, but I wouldn't want to lose the revenue of those who currently use both the brush and the tri-foam spray application. They might just clean their vehicles with the tri-foam product, skipping a step and increasing the operating costs.

 

[cantbreak80]

BTW...(3) five gallon buckets of tri-foam soap lasts me about a year @ 120-1...It doesn't get used like you'd think.

people were fascinated by it at first, and parents would let their kids go around painting the car with it.

I think I misunderstood...I thought you meant it wasn't being used enough to jusify the equipment and chemical costs.

A few years back, I got all excited by the tri-foam brush systems. It turned out to be a real flop. 3 jugs of pricey concentrate...vibrant colors, but only at low dilution ratios which caused staining of the concrete and a few cars (YIKES!)...and an overpriced controller that failed regularly. The only revenue improvement was the soap maker's...(Sorta like my broker. He always makes money and I get broker! )

My foam gun delivers foaming pre-soak and foaming tire cleaner. That conversion has really had an impact on usage...much better than when they came out of the hp gun.

That Simoniz sounds interesting. All I gotta do now is pull new wire to the meters, replace the rotary switches and decals and instruction signs, and reinstall my old tri-foam system...(with my own controller). Hmmmm

 

[2Biz]

When I installed the Tri-Foam (gun) system 2 years ago, it came with (3) 5 gallon soft bags of Turtle Wax, red, blue, and yellow...Dilution ratio is about 500 to 1...So I had to mix it 50/50 with water to run it in my hydrominder.

After diluting 50/50, I started with a 240 to 1 tip. It was real weak. So I doubled the ratio down to 120 to 1. This gives bright colors. The 120 to 1 ratio goes a long way.

My tri-foam does get used, I'm guessing about 10-15% of my customers use it. If that. People who do use it, use it every time. It does make a difference...Water beads up and runs off like the car was waxed. People who DO use it tell me how much they like it. But I still think it should get used more than it does...Its use is increasing...

I still get people who doesn't know the diffrerence between the tri-foam gun and FB.....They put the selector on Tri-Foam and hold the FB waiting on foam to come out while the foam gun is piling up foam on the floor! I have a huge sign describing all the functions and in which order to use. Its amazing how many people don't know one function from the other...Then I guess as operators, we throw in SFR and regular rinse just to confuse them even more!

It would be real easy to convert what I have per your suggestion. Especially after I add the new solenoid manifolds and controllers. But I'll stick with what I have for now and evaluate its use over the next year or so...

I'm not in love with my presoak...Its air and flojet powered through the HP line...Its another one that people who use it loves it, but most don't use it...I think, for the people who don't use it, it has more to do with how long it takes to get to the HP Gun even though I have it plumbed just over the bays...If someone waits 10 seconds for something to happen and it doesn't, they move on. If you turn up the pressure too high, their done in 30 seconds and it cost the oiperator too much to administer. Its all a very fine line whan you get right down to it.

 

[2Biz]

Cont'd....

I do like your suggestion about moving the Pre-Soak over to the foam gun and moving the tri-foam over to the FB... But I have 4 bays and only have a 3bay Tri-Foam. My truck bay doesn't have tri-foam. It has increased pressure as a trade off to the other bays...So I think IF I had a 4 bay tri-foam, I'd definetly look into changing...But unfortunetly I'm stuck with what I have for now.

IThat Simoniz sounds interesting. All I gotta do now is pull new wire to the meters, replace the rotary switches and decals and instruction signs, and reinstall my old tri-foam system...(with my own controller). Hmmmm

Boy you have a lot of energy lately! Not another Idec!

 

[cantbreak80]

Boy you have a lot of energy lately! Not another Idec!

Ain't happening...until my lighting project pays off. Anyway, after I wrote that I went and laid down to let the idea fade away.

So, the tri-foam replaced your hp wax selection? Or, did you convert to 10 position switches? (assuming original MVII meters)

Hmmm...Foaming Pre-soak and Tri-foam...from the same gun...Maybe not such a good idea. Too much back and forth for the customer?

"Use the red gun first...then then trigger gun...then the foam brush...then the trigger gun again...then the red gun again...then the trigger gun." Whew!

 

[MEP001]

I designed the tri-foam system for the distributor I worked for and also wrote the ladder program for the Logo version of your Idec. I've only seen one fail ever, and that was at a wash that gets hit by lightning every time it rains. He's even had motors in the softeners burn up after lightning.

I meant to make a video of the tri-foam application for you but I forgot to bring my camera to the wash.

I estimate a 20% usage, and that's on the conservative side. It seems like more people use it when it's slow - I've seen five out of five people in a row use it. If all the bays are in use, the tri-foam is running about half the time.

The Simoniz doesn't bead or do anything really obvious, but I have it labeled "Simoniz with UV protectant" on the switch. It doesn't stain.

 

[cantbreak80]

...wrote the ladder program for the Logo version of your Idec.

Sweet! Can you suggest a Siemens reseller? I'm dying to play with one of those 0BA7 Logos...(I guess they're never gonna give Idec the rights.)

I look forward to viewing that video. I'll bet it 'eye-popping"!

 

[MEP001]

I buy them from www.awc-inc.com

 

[2Biz]

Ain't happening...until my lighting project pays off. Anyway, after I wrote that I went and laid down to let the idea fade away. !

I need to do that more often!

So, the tri-foam replaced your hp wax selection? Or, did you convert to 10 position switches? (assuming original MVII meters)!

I have eight positions. Originally I had Tire Cleaner and Pre-Soak on the rotary. They both pulled from the same tank. So I took Tire Cleaner off the rotary and replaced it with Tri-Foam...So Starting at the top going CCW. Stop, Wax, Rinse, Soap, FB, Pre-Soak, SFR, TRi-Foam...![/QUOTE]

Hmmm...Foaming Pre-soak and Tri-foam...from the same gun...Maybe not such a good idea. Too much back and forth for the customer?

"Use the red gun first...then then trigger gun...then the foam brush...then the trigger gun again...then the red gun again...then the trigger gun." Whew!

If there was only an on and off switch, it would still be challenging for some! Its hard to incorporate the KISS method at a car wash.

 

[2Biz]

CB80,

Just found an alternative to buying WWF, even though I've found -20° stuff at K-Mart for a buck a gallon in the Spring during closeout....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/windshield-washer-fluid-concentrate-makes-55-gallons-/380226644855

Then if you have any Methanol laying around, you can mix it in with this to make your own fluid. Here are the ratio's:

WINTER MIX (55 GALLONS)
(FOR +21oF) 8 ounces Concentrate+ 49 Gallons Water + 6 gallons Methanol
(FOR +12oF) 8 ounces Concentrate + 44 Gallons Water + 11 gallons Methanol
(FOR 0oF) 8 ounces Concentrate+ 41 Gallons Water + 14 gallons Methanol
(FOR -15oF) 8 ounces Concentrate+ 36 Gallons Water + 19 gallons Methanol


I have about 30 gallons of pure methanol that I won't have a use for after converting. Just a thought....

 

[cantbreak80]

2B...

I don't see the point of the concentrate. Why add a cleaning agent to the mix? Just dilute your methanol with water to achieve the freeze point desired.

FYI...My fire dept inspector "wrote me up" for having more than 8 gallons of "flammable liquid" in the equipment room...(I had 8 cases of WWF!) I can only imagine his reaction to a 55 gallon drum of methanol stored near the 3 ignition sources.

 

[2Biz]

2B...

I don't see the point of the concentrate. Why add a cleaning agent to the mix? Just dilute your methanol with water to achieve the freeze point desired.

Good point! I was surfing for the cheapest winter washer fluid out there and came accross that. But you're right, we really don't need the soap...

I'm glad I don't have to deal with inspectors. The only thing I HAVE to get inspected is my backflow preventor...Although, when I switched Insurance, the agent wanted to Audit the wash. He gigged me for not having a fire extenguisher. Just never gave it any thought. Lucky he didn't know what was in the Tri-Foam Tanks, the FB tanks, and WWF tank...

Sometimes living in a small town has its benefits...Making lots of $$$ at the wash isn't one of them!

 

[MEP001]

Somewhat off-topic, but we recently got warned for not having a fire extinguisher mounted outside for emergency customer use. First time in nine years someone noticed...I guess the previous guy (who I've seen park blocking our exit, in a fire lane, and in front of a hydrant) wasn't doing his job. They still didn't tag us for the fire-lane paint along the drying shed being worn completely away and for not having a fire box with a key to the building inside.

 

[MEP001]

I look forward to viewing that video. I'll bet it 'eye-popping"!

I finally remembered to get the video uploaded. I should have redone it - I noticed as I was doing it that the yellow was weak. I'm mostly happy with how it applies, but I'm working on ways to increase the volume out the gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkLx0wjAuw4

 

[2Biz]

Nice application there! How do you get it to fan out like that? I have a Dultmeier System that utilizes a Procon pump and air. I have the procon set @ 70 psi and air at 60 psi per Dultmeier's recommendation....Mine kind of squirts out of the gun in a spitting stream instead of fanning. Maybe I need to play with the PSI of the air and pump to see if I can get different results...I like the fan a lot better than the way mine works....Maybe its the nozzel? My guns look like yours...

 

[MEP001]

I've tried several tips from 0540 to 4040. That bay has a 4040 and no generator, just a tee. I get a thicker foam with the generator but less volume. The 0540 ends up more of a stream than a fan. I haven't tried the 2540 without a generator yet.

 

[2Biz]

I checked my guns this evening and I have 4050 nozzles. My air and soap mix right above the bay, but I also have a foam generator in the line. Basically what looks like a spiral drill chip in a 3/8" x 3" long brass nipple right after the Tee....I can see where this could cause some restriction. But I do get thick foam.

My nozzel seems to be bigger than yours. The next time I place an order at KR, I'll get a 2540, 3040, and a 4040 to see what difference that makes.

What pressures are you running?

 

[MEP001]

I'm running 80 on the liquid, 60 on the air.

I would think that if you're not getting a good fan from a 4050, then maybe the larger orifice inhibits the fanning. Where did you get the 4050 tips, and what brand are they? Maybe the brand or type makes the difference. I order the 4040 from Windtrax - they're Spraying Systems brand V-spray, the only ones I've been able to find with 1/8" thread.