Dollar Coin Vote?

[Earl Weiss]

......, but the blame is on a government that tells you that you can have everything without working for it or any coincidences for your stupidity. .....

IMNSHO , yes and no. First and foremost I do not look to the the government for lessons on responsibility nor should anyone else. Those need to come from elsewhere. AFAIAC the government provides examples of fiscal irresponsibility.

Perhaps the government exhibits the symptom by politicians never having learned responsibility or at least acting like it when pandering to certain factions.

 

[pitzerwm]

Wouldn't that actually be a shocker, that parents taught their child responsibility, or right from wrong.

Here is a perfect example: Years ago, I was asked by the local high school to give a talk to the senior class because I was a successful businessman. I said sure and I'd let them know when I was ready. I created a speech that showed them how they could become a millionaire, just by quitting smoking. When I told the "councilor" what my speech would be about, she cancelled it, saying that "she didn't think that would be an appropriate subject".

 

[Earl Weiss]

A reason to love dollar coins. (Note, this scheme was stopped in July 2011)

http://www.dailyfinance.com/on/lifehack-legal-schemes-save-money-consumer-ethics/


I decided to talk to Brad Wilson about this. Wilson runs deal site BradsDeals, and he regularly employs all manner of shopping tricks and hacks to get the most out of businesses' offers. We talked to him about one such scheme a few months ago: 1. He bought millions of dollar coins from the government using a rewards credit card, in the process netting himself lifetime platinum status on American Airlines.

In that case, he insists that there were no losers in his scheme -- the credit card company got its transaction fees, the airline got pa

id for the points, and even the U.S. Mint made money -- it profits on every dollar coin it makes.

 

[Reds]

I'm with Earl. I have a vacation house in Canada and I don't like the change vs. bills. And I have spoken to Canadians who feel the same. What about the behind the scenes cost to the vending industry, carwash industry, retail industry, casinos, banks, and anyone else who needs to have different coin acceptors, coin dispensers, counters, and other coin handling equipment.
Didn't we already try the dollar coin in the US and it was overwhelmingly rejected by consumers and business. No one wanted it or used it.

 

[MEP001]

When the Sacagawea coin first came out it was very difficult to get them around here. WalMart and post office vending machines gave them out as change, but that's the only place I ever saw them. When we opened the wash in 2003 I ordered a hopper wheel so it could dispense dollar coins for change. The only bank I could find that kept them on hand charged $30 for 500 rolled coins, and they were always out. I never bothered putting the $1 coin wheel in the hopper.

 

[JeffM]

I'm with Earl. I have a vacation house in Canada and I don't like the change vs. bills. And I have spoken to Canadians who feel the same. What about the behind the scenes cost to the vending industry, carwash industry, retail industry, casinos, banks, and anyone else who needs to have different coin acceptors, coin dispensers, counters, and other coin handling equipment.
Didn't we already try the dollar coin in the US and it was overwhelmingly rejected by consumers and business. No one wanted it or used it.

Reds, one of the main reasons the dollar coin has failed is not due to the public rejecting, but more so that business refuses to adapt and give consumers a place to spend their new dollar coins. With lobbying against the implementation due to costs to change over equipment, etc..., it will never be convenient for consumers to make the switch and therefore have no incentive to do so! Canadian consumers typically carry only a few dollars change in their pocket (under $5) and use cards for the majority of transactions because it is more convenient for them to do so. The argument of having "a pocket full of bulky change" that "takes up too much room" is nothing but a scare tactic. No one in their right mind would carry $15+ worth of change in their pocket on a regular basis.

Having lived with a dollar coin since 1987, and having used dollar bills when I visit the US, I find that I tend to carry more dollar bills during a week visit to the US than I would in an entire year at home carrying coins. Lastly, the estimated savings of $13.8 billion over four years appears to be money that the US can afford to throw away. Correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked, the US economy could probably make good use of that money... just my $0.02

 

[Kevin Reilly]

When the first dollar coin came out I was all for it (still am and still take them), but I doubt that we'll see the removal of the dollar bill happen in our life-time. Most of the people talking about it have probably never seen one (which shows the stupidity of the people that are or would be making this major decision)! When Sacagawea first came out we used them for change in our tunnels. We used tokens in our changers and a lot of our customers thought they were "tokens"! Today at our 5 locations on empty out we probably get on average around 30 a week, sometimes more and sometimes less! I would not use the dollar coin in our changers because "the bad guys" do know the difference so we stick to dollar tokens in our changers!

 

[mjwalsh]

deficit facilitators

Why would that small minority of consumers & businesses in the USA who rarely sees the dollar coins (because of deliberately orchestrated non availability of the coins) feel a "need" vs a "want" for the very inexpensive update to accept & dispense dollar coins.

We have had a Cummins coin sorter counter for almost 11 years now & we have not had to call for service on it a single time ... can the same be said about the better bill sorter counters?. Evidence shows that the same can't be said of bill sorter counters. I guarantee you that when we go to the bank with an equal number of one dollar bills as coins ... it takes less time to process. Dollar coins weigh less, facilitate coin transactions & are all around more convenient than the equivalent in quarters.

Back in the early 60s before we built our car wash, if there had been an availability problem of quarters & just dimes & nickels available for our Laundromat ... there never would have been a better future for our Laundromat & the expansion of building the adjacent Car Wash & there would have been other employment sought by myself & my employees over the years. Quarters & the paper one dollars were fine back in the 1960s ... but please properly consider the need to adjust for inflation when it comes to the clearly more costly long term paper one dollar & the now less practical quarter. That is unless you want to give a blank check to the "accepted by norm" rates of merchant fees.

If the crony capitalism paper manufacturer who has underwritten tons of anti dollar coin lobbyists over the years was acting in good faith they would accept a uniquely American solution of ramping up the availability of $2 bills which would not be that costly to program into our equipment. Of course, they have cozy allies with the "hungry for merchant fees" credit card promoters & the "conflict of interest" federal reserve.

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[Earl Weiss]

Reds, one of the main reasons the dollar coin has failed is not due to the public rejecting, but more so that business refuses to adapt and give consumers a place to spend their new dollar coins. <<<<<<

How so? The amount of money used in vending machines pales in comparison to the sums spent elsewhere. Have you actualy tried to use a dollar coin at any retail establishment and have that company refuse to accept it?


>>The argument of having "a pocket full of bulky change" that "takes up too much room" is nothing but a scare tactic. <<

No, it's very real. I already seem to accumulate too much change in my pocket without another coin to add to the room and weight.

>>> Lastly, the estimated savings of $13.8 billion over four years << I luv these estimate. They never indicate addittional fuel costs due to weight being transported.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I guarantee you that when we go to the bank with an equal number of one dollar bills as coins ... it takes less time to process.

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

Mr. Walsh, I don't have the equipment to experiment but I have seen both coin counters and bill counters at work. I doubt there is much difference in speed vis a vis counting 500 bills or 500 coins. Although there may be some time savings in that they band the bills right away and the coins go into a bag but there is still time later typicaly putting the coins in rolls . Can you explain how you came up with the less time to process coins?

anyone here care to report back on machine counting time of 500 bills vs 500 coins?

It also may depend on the bank. Some are terribly slow at handling cash. One I go to is in a shopping center and recently acquired machines where you deposit mixed bills and it counst and sorts all denominations giving a total.

 

[mjwalsh]

deficit correction response

Although there may be some time savings in that they band the bills right away and the coins go into a bag but there is still time later typicaly putting the coins in rolls . Can you explain how you came up with the less time to process coins?

anyone here care to report back on machine counting time of 500 bills vs 500 coins?

http://www.cumminsallison.com/us/en/products/coin-counting-machines/jetsort-6000

http://www.cumminsallison.com/us/en/products/currency-handling

Also truthful observation ... based on our banking experience. All the banks I go to have preferred coins to be loose in bags for over 25 years now. The local bank personnel agree with me that it is wrong for the federal reserve to FORCE those ridiculous more costly & less efficient rolls to the banks & consequently to their customers. Customers who see the value of one fourth the wear & tear on their coin dispenser hoppers etc.

Another point to make is that if & when dollar coins are as common as quarters ... most coin mechs have the ability to accept only higher denomination coin or coins if the operator chooses. That is not the situation now but in other countries where they got the proper update to adjust for inflation ... I am sure that some refrain from accepting denominations less than one dollar to simplify their operations. Some of us older more experienced self service operators only including myself remember it was wise for us to avoid accepting dimes back before inflation changed the purchasing power.

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[Earl Weiss]

i see . 4000 quarters tray capacity a minute with presumeably same speed for dollar coins vs 1600 bills a minute. I'd much rather carry and load the 1600 bills. The coins would way about 50lbs vs less than 5 for the bills.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Keep in mind that if you are dispensing gold dollars you will be recycling them back into your changers, not lugging them to the bank. In 13 years I have not deposited a single one. If they get to circulating freely I'm sure that would change, but to what extent, only time will tell. Also, since dispensing dollar coins I receive many times more large bills than I did when I dispensed quarters. They're a lot easier to process as well. The hassle with dollar coins is having to buy them. Since I also dispense tokens, sorting wasn't a problem, but I understand that could be an issue for some.

Regarding the comment on coin acceptor issues for vending, it wasn't/hasn't been much of an issue. To me, it seems that the validator would be the high maintainence item. Anything that would eliminate the need for that would be a plus IMO.

 

[jimbeaux]

Mr. Walsh, I don't have the equipment to experiment but I have seen both coin counters and bill counters at work. I doubt there is much difference in speed vis a vis counting 500 bills or 500 coins. Although there may be some time savings in that they band the bills right away and the coins go into a bag but there is still time later typicaly putting the coins in rolls . Can you explain how you came up with the less time to process coins?

anyone here care to report back on machine counting time of 500 bills vs 500 coins?

It also may depend on the bank. Some are terribly slow at handling cash. One I go to is in a shopping center and recently acquired machines where you deposit mixed bills and it counst and sorts all denominations giving a total.

Earl, for me counting coins is much quicker than counting the bills. I use scales instead of coin counters and have never had an inaccuracy that came back from the bank who by the way loves it. I also recycle the gold dollars and bring the quarters to the bank in the bags they provide.

 

[mjwalsh]

i see . 4000 quarters tray capacity a minute with presumeably same speed for dollar coins vs 1600 bills a minute. I'd much rather carry and load the 1600 bills. The coins would way about 50lbs vs less than 5 for the bills.

You must be talking about quarters & not the easily distinguishable golden dollar coins. Like I.B, said the coins are & will continue to be recycled more conveniently than the quarters. Also, it appears that it is closer to 7 or 8 times as fast based on the previous links I shared not the ratio you suggest. Previous posts by owners of bill sorter-counters validate the extra maintenance & even service contracts needed. Weighing is not as good of an option for bills for sure vs dollar coins.

Indisputable facts on the weight of dollar coins:

1 lbs = $ 56
5 lbs = $ 280
10 lbs = $ 560
20 lbs = $1,120
25 lbs = $1,400

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[Earl Weiss]

Indisputable facts on the weight of dollar coins:

1 lbs = $ 56
5 lbs = $ 280
10 lbs = $ 560
20 lbs = $1,120
25 lbs = $1,400

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

I stand corrected. Still would like to carry less than 5lbs in paper vs more than 25lbs in coins for $1600

 

[Earl Weiss]

Keep in mind that if you are dispensing gold dollars you will be recycling them back into your changers, not lugging them to the bank. Regarding the comment on coin acceptor issues for vending, it wasn't/hasn't been much of an issue. To me, it seems that the validator would be the high maintainence item. Anything that would eliminate the need for that would be a plus IMO.

I have read posts about lugging quarters to and from the bank and can only conclude that different locals experience different things. I never bring quarters to the bank. I have to bring more a couple of times a month. Since I installed bay bill acceptors my bill receipts run about 1/3 in the bays and 2/3 in the changers. Since I have to bring single dollar bills to the bank I would expect having to either have to bring single dollar coins to the bank or supplement them. Either way dragging the metal is worse than dragging paper.

 

[JeffM]

Earl, you are right, the amount of coinage used in vending is relatively insignificant compared to other spending. There would still be a need for any equipment which accepts coins to be able to accept the US dollar coin. As you and others have expressed, operators of coin related equipment are reluctant to invest in equipment for which they will fail to see a return. "Many have already installed equipment to handle dollar coins “but we didn’t reap the savings by implementing the switch,” laments Aaron Klein, a consultant to the Dollar Coin Alliance, an advocacy group." ("Kill Bill", The Economist, Mar 16, 2013).

If business fails to embrace the new coinage for any number of various reasons, consumers will have fewer options of where to spend their dollar coins and will therefore also reject them in the form of diminished demand for the coins. For example, if you are to purchase a bus pass in Las Vegas using one of the terminals on the street and it does not accept dollar coins as it has not been upgraded to accept them, you, as a consumer, will not want to carry dollar coins if you regularly purchase bus passes in this manner as you know you will not be able to use them. Face to face interactions are completely different and will of course depend on the merchant's willingness to accept and give dollar coins as change. I would expect that there would be no issue with a business refusing to accept the dollar coins as they are legal tender. Nor have I ever had a business refuse taking a dollar coin.

As I have previously noted, with a larger denomination of coin, people are more apt to carry only the larger change ($1, $0.25) and will continue to collect smaller coinage as they currently do. This should result in fewer coins being carried.

Lastly, although I’m sure that transport costs aren’t factored in, even if the fuel was grossly overestimated at ½ of the total savings, that is still $6.9 Billion... not exactly chump change.

 

[mjwalsh]

http://www.dollarcoinalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/TimeForChange.pdf

I thoroughly read the above document & I could not find any significant inaccuracies & I thought the references that the information was based on ... to be more solid & credible than the opposition who have made & continue to make it so dollar coins are not as common as quarters.

mike walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[robert roman]

Like the movie The Graduate, One word, Plastics.

More than 20 percent of consumers want mobile payment now. Within 5, it may be 50 percent who do. Clam shell phones are endangered species.

If you don’t accept plastic, most people 20 to 30 years old will pass you by.

Once Wal-Mart makes mobile payment affordable for the lower 40, its food stamps, plastic, dollar bills, smart phones, coins not so much.

What industries are weighted toward coins - banks by necessity then change from cash purchases, parking meters, laundries, wands, arcade, etc? Only coin laundry is growing.

I have an 1889 Morgan silver dollar. At auction, a proof may get $1,300 to $14,000. Sliver $600 to $5,000.

Only old coins are worth any money.

Vote, coins, thumb down.