right when i thought that hydroflex wasn't quiet ready for prime time, and that their electronic valves had issues, and their injectors were too small, and the wall unit over engineered, i had a 30 year experienced operator say that he would never go back to the hydro minder again. what do guys think? the hydroflex system seems to be the wave of the future and may have more advantages than the obvious one of saving space.
hydro minder vs hydroflex
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Earl Weiss
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I watched the video.
A. Attractive system. Does it save space? Maybe some. You still need space fore the chemicals. Typicaly there is room above for a traditional pumping station or injector pump.
B. Expensive components with 2 HP Pumps (1 plus Backup) motor starter and timer.
C. Serious concern about serviceability if a hose breaks behind the pretty panel. Panel easy to remove but would still have to wrestle numerous connections.
D. Concerns that the way air is supplied could adequately serve 7 regulaters / foamers. I have had issues with a 3/8 inch poly serviceing 3 solenoids and regulators for tri foam, had to use 1/2" .
Relative cost - Unknown. Need to compare to setup of 5-7 Hydrominder / flo jet / solenoid regulator setup.
E. For most solution apps, pressure is irrelevant. Pre Soak, Sealer Wax, Foamers, Wheel cleaner, Drying agent, Rain X, Tire Shine, are effective at low pressure application. So, I don't realy see how it would save any volume per application so no chemical cost savings.
A. Attractive system. Does it save space? Maybe some. You still need space fore the chemicals. Typicaly there is room above for a traditional pumping station or injector pump.
B. Expensive components with 2 HP Pumps (1 plus Backup) motor starter and timer.
C. Serious concern about serviceability if a hose breaks behind the pretty panel. Panel easy to remove but would still have to wrestle numerous connections.
D. Concerns that the way air is supplied could adequately serve 7 regulaters / foamers. I have had issues with a 3/8 inch poly serviceing 3 solenoids and regulators for tri foam, had to use 1/2" .
Relative cost - Unknown. Need to compare to setup of 5-7 Hydrominder / flo jet / solenoid regulator setup.
E. For most solution apps, pressure is irrelevant. Pre Soak, Sealer Wax, Foamers, Wheel cleaner, Drying agent, Rain X, Tire Shine, are effective at low pressure application. So, I don't realy see how it would save any volume per application so no chemical cost savings.
Earl Weiss
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Also noticed no seperate shutoff for wach air and water feed. Seems like you have to shut down the entire system for an issue with one solenoid. I have seperate shutoffs for each pumping station air and water supply so nothing needs to be shut down to swap out a solenoid or hydrominder.
The wiring distribution block is a neat set up until you have a problem (sure, it may be 10 or 20 years down the road) . It will not be fun to trouble shoot or replace.
The wiring distribution block is a neat set up until you have a problem (sure, it may be 10 or 20 years down the road) . It will not be fun to trouble shoot or replace.
If Hydrominder would make just a couple of simple changes, they wouldn't be so hated. The changes: 1. Use stainless screws that hold the top on. The rubber diaphragm needs changing about every two years. More so with wax products. 2 Use a stainless connector that connects the chain to the wire loop on the body. 3 Get a better float canister.
The Hydroflex system is an excellent system. It definitely does a great job controlling dilution ratios and can save chemical costs. If I were building a new wash or doing an extensive rehab I would probably go with it. However I do not feel the high cost of the equipment justifies doing it just to change your application equipment. It would take a very long time to recover the cost of the change.
that's kinda what i thought .... they're getting somewhere close to 40 percent of the new builds they told me
Earl Weiss
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Interesting comments. I have no issues with the screws on top. I do prefer the rebuild kits with metal stems. What issue do you have with the screws?
2. No issues with the connecter to the wire loop. What issue are you having?
3. I wonder why the product affects your diaphram. The Diaphram should have no contact with the product. It's located upstream of the educator. If there is a siphoning issue the product could get siphoned back but this can be corrected with a siphon breaker or drilling a small hole in the tube below the educator but above the liquid level to break the siphon so long as any liquid coming out goes into the tank.
4. Floats seem to last indefinitely. Maybe I have changed one or two that are past 10 years old. Waht is your isue?
Earl Weiss
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I wonder how the data for that 40% was obtained?
Earl Weiss
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The cost for a single panel with motor starter and 2 pumps is???????
MEP001
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If the Hydrominders aren't enclosed in the tanks, they seem to do ok. If they're in a closed-lid tank, especially with hot water, they can rust so badly in just a couple years that the hex head can completely rust away and you have to cut them off and replace the plastic body. I replace the screws with stainless wood screws - I tried to get a stainless version of it, but the few places I checked with wouldn't order less than 100,000 units at 14¢ each.
The old ones had a stainless roll-pin through a stainless loop on the end of the chain. The new float has a loop molded into the top which sometimes gets cracked and lets water into the float, and the clip between the float and the loop is chrome-plated steel. This one is only a couple months old:
No argument there.
They certainly could be sealed better. Take a new one and remove the cap - odds are the "safety" seal isn't even sealed down all the way.
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Wow, I am not expereiencing any rusting like that. I feel some of the clips are flimsy and seem to open coming off the float so I just loop the chain thru the hole and the eye that the clip is attached to.
Earl Weiss
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So, the panel on their website can replace 7 foaming Traditional Hydrominder / flo jet mixing pumping stations. Individual components would run about $650 with Viton Flo Jets, and Tommy's has them ready made for $860 or a little over $6000 for the traditional equivelant. To be fair the Hydro flex system gives you a spare Pump. So add another $600 for 2 spare Flo Jets and 2 spare Hydrominders.
I can find better things to do with addittional $6000.
Sonny's curiously no longer has prices for these in their catalog. Tommy's website has them at
Washmee
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When someone is building a new wash, whats another $12k. Right? I prefer the KISS philosophy.
I think in a new wash or an extensive rehab it makes some sense because it is the best chemical delivery system out there and will save on chemical costs. The amount it would increase your payment would be somewhat insignificant. As part of an equipment package I think the extra cost is probably worth it not to mention the space it will save and better product performance.
To just change over to it as an upgrade is a different story in my opinion.
To just change over to it as an upgrade is a different story in my opinion.
Earl Weiss
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I know they pitch it as saving on chem costs but the rationale escapes me. (Both the hydroflex and Hydrominders work off a venturi principle.) The pitch involved applying solutions at higher pressure. High pressure is irrelevant for foaming applications At one time we applied drying agent at High pressure but later stopped without any noticeable difference. I really don't understand how it saves chemical or enhances performance. Space savings over 7 Hydrominder / flojet stations? Sure, wall space, but you still have to put the seven 5 gallon pails of concentrate somewhere. On a linear foot basis the pumping stations don't take up any more room than the 5 gallon pails and with triple units or some other mfgr units it takes up less space. So, in a sense you only free up some wall space.
This system is much more accurate and easier to control and adjust than a Hydrominder. I believe they may also have an option of changing ratios remotely but I am not sure about that. I am not trying to sell one system or the other. Just pointing out the differences and stating my opinion. If you really wanted to go cheaper you could probably use all Dema valves and try to keep a consistent water pressure. Another option would be Dosatrons which are also costly. There are many options when injecting and applying chemicals. Some cost more than others, some work better than others and some are a PITA to use. It's all what you want to put up with or spend.
Earl Weiss
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Here is the website info http://www.hydraflexinc.com/chemical-dispensing-videos/
Both Hydraflex and hydrominders use varying size changebale venturi tips. So, I am cluelss as to why one would be more accurate or easier or harder to control.
No mention of changing anything remotely.
Demas most definitely are finicky at low dilution rates. I use them but only wide open to inject soap into the brush water stream for lubrication and some cleaning. Tried injector pumps when I inherited a place set up that way. Inconsistencies and clogging lead me to replace them al, with Hydrominers and pumping stations.
looked into Dosatron but they seemed finicky with pressure issues and in line filters for each.
I would be interested in feedback from operators who have tried multiple systems, hydromionder / Flo Jet, Hydraflex, Injectors pumps, Dosatrons etc. and hear their experiences.
MEP001
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I have no direct experience with Dosatrons myself, but I've worked with someone who has eliminated all his low-pressure pumps and tanks (except for high-pressure soap) and uses Dosatrons. It seems to work well, but his only complaint has been that when he turns off the water to the unit it leaks when it's turned back on.
