hydro minder vs hydroflex

[rph9168]

Obviously no system is absolutely foolproof. They all seem to have their issues and it really depends on how much you want to babysit the system. It is my understanding that the Hydraflex system controls both the volume of chemical and the water pressure keeping it constant and once it is set it requires no additional monitoring. I guess if you want to have one less thing to be checking on all the time it would be worth it. I did find out that they do not offer remote monitoring. They worked on that system but decided it was too costly as an add on and not really necessary. I know of one operator that has the system and swears by it. He put it in when he built the wash.

 

[rph9168]

Talked to a good friend of mine that works for the local Belanger/PDQ distributor. He said that all the installations and rehabs they have done for the last four years have used the Hydraflex. He said even at $10,000+ the system pays for itself in less than four years in a tunnel and maybe 5+ in an automatic. He said not only is it trouble free but saves on water and chemical. He said you can pretty much set it and forget it. Again, I have absolutely no connection to Hydraflex. I am just trying to educate myself as well as guys on the Forum. It still boils done to an operator's decision.

 

[Buzzie8]

I saw one of these at a local distributor and the pumps are the exact same as used on my RO system. I think I paid $500 for a replacement a couple years ago. The whole system looked pretty easy to build on your own.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I have no direct experience with Dosatrons myself, but I've worked with someone who has eliminated all his low-pressure pumps and tanks (except for high-pressure soap) and uses Dosatrons. It seems to work well, but his only complaint has been that when he turns off the water to the unit it leaks when it's turned back on.

Is this a tunnel or SS?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Talked to a good friend of mine that works for the local Belanger/PDQ distributor. He said that all the installations and rehabs they have done for the last four years have used the Hydraflex. He said even at $10,000+ the system pays for itself in less than four years in a tunnel and maybe 5+ in an automatic. He said not only is it trouble free but saves on water and chemical. He said you can pretty much set it and forget it. Again, I have absolutely no connection to Hydraflex. I am just trying to educate myself as well as guys on the Forum. It still boils done to an operator's decision.

I'd like to know how and why the Hydraflex saved $, There are lots of reasons any new system would save $ compared to an old system someone was using from wworn nozzles to improper dilutions.

I understand the savings "Pitch". I just don't understand the "How". Everyone who wants to sell me stuff tells me how it will save me $. At one ICA show a chem rep told me how he was going to save me $ and he didn't even know how much I was spending on chemicals. Told me he would get my costs down to XXX per car which was about double what my cost was!

I find the Hydrominders pretty much set and forget. Unlike some here, I think a diapohram gets replaced every few years. I can't see foot valves lasting longer with this system. Flo Jets last a few years. Not sure how long their HP pumps will last. Solenoid valves last indefinitely, Injectors last indefinitely.

 

[MEP001]

Is this a tunnel or SS?

He has three different SS locations.

 

[rph9168]

The guy I talked to has worked for this distributor for many years and was not trying to sell me anything. He said he knows the unit has saved chemical costs and water costs as well because is gives consistent results. Of course how much one saves depends on their volume but I trust this guy to tell me the truth. He is the type that would not sell anything he did not believe was a benefit to his customer. As I have said before, there are many ways to measure and inject chemicals so it is up to the individual operator to use what they feel is best for them. I would think that anyone considering a change should at least look into this on their own to see if it works for them.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The guy I talked to has worked for this distributor for many years and was not trying to sell me anything. He said he knows the unit has saved chemical costs and water costs as well because is gives consistent results. .

Trust, honesty and believing is not the issue. I am seeking wisdom. People believed the earth was flat and trusted that the sun revolved around the earth. These were honest and intelligent people.

Lets accept for an example that the unt costs $6000 more than the Hydrominder / flo jet alternative. Now lets also guestimate that a wash spends $20,000.00 annualy on solutions that need diluting. Saving 10% a year results in a 3 year theoretical payback. Now, how do we prove it? Even 2 locations identical as they come with 2 different back room set ups can have one spend 10% less per car if it's chain speed is 10% faster. In theory the Titanic was unsinkable and the bumblebee can't fly.

The only real way to prove it would be to change the backroom for a location that kept really good track of it's cost per car and made changes in the tunnel that could not have been made with the other system and see how it compares on a cost per car basis. Any other claim that the system saved money without explaining exactly how it is more accurate, how it saves chem or water costs is simply hopium.

 

[Rock Chalk Jayahawk]

I can't speak directly for the Hydraflex system, have spoken to operators with the system installed and have heard nothing but praise. Being a Lustra distributor and installing several Mizer systems; which operate on same principals, I can attest to the cost savings realized with the system. I have a tunnel customer that replaced their dosatrons with the Mizer system and has experienced a 17% reduction in their water consumption. They have also reduced their chemical costs as well. The system works in conjunction with the UltraFlex system and I think it is suited better for high concentrate chemicals where use amounts are 5-10mls as opposed to 30+mls seen with conventional chemicals. Hydrominders and ultra lean dilution tips never seem to get along.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Hydrominders and ultra lean dilution tips never seem to get along.

Out of 4 locations, 3 use Ultra lean tips for ultra concentrates. I can't say that I see any more issues than with regular tips. 2 locations that use them exclusively have a seperate "Surge Tank" with water pump keeping pressure fairly steady. One uses city pressure and worls well. The 4th, oldest location which never had a "Back Room" for solution delivery needs to have the solutions diluted seperately before using regular hydrominders to get what I felt was an acceptable dilution.
So, perhaps the key part of the Hydro Flex system is the constant water pressure provided by the pump as opposed to the venturi action it provides.
So far there has really been no explanation as to how it saves water or chemical except for a best guess as to the consistent water flow / delivery provided by the pump. This is an inherent issue with Dosatrons, and something either a single water supply pump can resolve for Dosatrons or any system, or as I did with one place that seemed to run out of water if I simply used dema valves (Which woks well at another place with a pump) was to add reserves provided by hydrominder stations with consistent delivery provided by flo jets.

 

[Rock Chalk Jayahawk]

Constant and consistent water pressure plays a large part in my opinion for the accurate "pull" of the chemicals. In regards to water savings; in most instances using the pumps from the mizer/hydraflex systems to supply all your application points, including rinse arches, provides instant delivery to each service. Used in conjunction with check valves we eliminated the drain out effect of the products and the supply lines are always locked, loaded and ready to spray. At the aforementioned tunnel we were able to shave 1-2 seconds off every arch activated time. The delivery pump is programmed to run for 7 secs after each injector solenoid closes allowing for the next service to be supplied with the set pressure instantly; also saving wear and tear and energy by pump not starting/stopping between every application.

My opinion is that it would require a pretty specific situation for a retrofit to the system to justify the expense. I am confident it would pay for itself sooner than you would think, but to do it as a stand alone upgrade would have to meet certain circumstances. A new build, absolutely would recommend it no question; or if an operator was doing a rehab of a site they would definitely want to consider the system.

 

[JGinther]

If there is room for 2 more cents, here it is... Hydrominders, as long as they have a maintained inlet pressure, will dose extremely consistent dilution results. The exact same is the case for downstream injection setups like the mizer or ultraflex. However, as soon as you start injecting air downstream of the injector, all bets are off. With hydrominders, the chemical is already mixed at the diluted amount in the tank and will not be affected by aeration. Injection systems wind up having backpressure from the air stream. While this doesn't prevent the injector from working, it will cause you to have different dilutions everytime the air pressure changes - whether caused by adjustment, or by minor fluctuations in the air regulator or feed air pressure.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Used in conjunction with check valves we eliminated the drain out effect of the products and the supply lines are always locked, loaded and ready to spray. .

Please advise which check valves you are using. Size, Type, and source. I use some as well but I am not certain I have found the best solution.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If there is room for 2 more cents, here it is... Hydrominders, as long as they have a maintained inlet pressure, will dose extremely consistent dilution results. The exact same is the case for downstream injection setups like the mizer or ultraflex. However, as soon as you start injecting air downstream of the injector, all bets are off. With hydrominders, the chemical is already mixed at the diluted amount in the tank and will not be affected by aeration. Injection systems wind up having backpressure from the air stream. While this doesn't prevent the injector from working, it will cause you to have different dilutions everytime the air pressure changes - whether caused by adjustment, or by minor fluctuations in the air regulator or feed air pressure.

I will second that regarding aeration after an injector; It ABSOLUTELY affects the dilution ratio. I like pressurized injection systems and use them when I can, but it's hard to beat a hydrominder with a constant inlet pressure for accuracy.