Soap, Wax, and City Pressure

[2Biz]

There are two methods I know of to Inject Soap and wax when using City Pressure to the HP pump. One is to inject soap and wax using a Dema 203C injector with reduced city pressure which I have tested and works perfectly. The other method is to pressure feed soap and wax using a Flojet at a slightly higher PSI than the incoming water supply to the HP pump.

For those of you using city pressure how is your pump stand set up? Do you like it or would you change anything? I can think of pro’s and con’s with both methods I mentioned. Or is there another way I haven’t come across yet.

 

[rph9168]

It is always more accurate to pump the product to inject rather than depend on a Dema unless you can maintain a constant water pressure with a pressure regulator. From my experience most pressure regulators do a decent job but do not always provide constant pressure.

 

[Earl Weiss]

My Pump stand has a reservoir filled with a float valve that gravity feeds the 8 pumps with Fresh water. Another reservoir suplies the soap thru an injector. A solenoid opens allowing the soap to flow to the pumpm when soap is called for . It stays closed if it's only using fresh water rinse.

I would be concerned that the city supply would be insufficien to supply al 8 if they needed to use HP Soap or rinse at the same time. Not likely to happen long enough foir the reservoir to be exhausted.

 

[2Biz]

Earl,

I currently have an old Mark VII pump stand that gravity feeds water, soap, and wax. I pressure feed FB and Pre-Soak. I want to switch to city pressure to the HP pumps to make it easier and more efficient to plumb in Hot Water. I only have a 4 bay with a 1” water supply and that will supply about 40 gallons a minute. So the 1” supply will keep up with no problem.

There are different ways to set up a city pressure system. I realize you need a regulator for each bay and shutoff solenoids for each hot and cold supply to each bay as well. I just want to inject soap and wax the most optimal way. I will continue to pre-dilute soap and wax with a hydrominder.

 

[Earl Weiss]

2 Biz,

Not sure what yor overall plan or goal is but the feed to my pump stand reservoir has the hot and Cold T'd together with a valve on each. That way as the weather gets colder I can simply close the Cold more and more and open the hot more and more. I guess I have some temp loss if the water sits in the reservoir for a while (Thought about putting a small submersible heater in the tank to keep the water warm if it sits for a while.) so I can see how direct feed would be more consistent.

 

[2Biz]

My goal is to get rid of the old erie 2 way valves (that don't work) and the Jarco 350K boiler that also doesn't work. I think the wash has been this way for at least 10 years. Cold water only. So if I add hot water with my current setup (gravity feed water) I'd have to fix the erie valves and come up with a boiler and circulating pump for the hot water gravity feed tank. My tanks are very old and would need updated as well. Plus keeping the hot water float tank heated 100% of the time has its issues, as you know.

SO if I'm going to add Hot water, it makes sense to me to get rid of the Hot/Cold water supply float tanks and go to city pressure. It will be much easier to plumb in the hot water heater. The cost will actually be less than trying to come up with a demand boiler and circulating pump. Believe it or not. It will be much cheaper and better to add hot/cold solenoids, regulators for each bay, and some sort of soap/wax injector. Whether it be a Dema 203C injector, flojet forced, or even Dosatron injection. The Dosatraon's are a bit out of my price range!

I'm also wanting to put in a 96% efficient tank style heater...PVC vented forced air and stainless tank. A 130K bTU Polaris will be about $2800 and will heat appr 2400 gallons in a 12 hour period. Way more than needed for my 4 bay....Especially if I only heat the soap cycle.
Time of hot water to the bays will also be shortened since there will be much less plumbing and smaller feed lines to the pump. Plus no float tanks to keep heated. Right now I have a 2.0" PVC manifold the full length of my stand that would also have to get heated before hot water makes it to the bay. I'm also looking for efficiency. I want this to run like my High Efficiency Takagi Demand Heater I put in for floor heat. It is extremely efficient and cost very little to operate.

 

[mjwalsh]

I'm also looking for efficiency. I want this to run like my High Efficiency Takagi Demand Heater I put in for floor heat. It is extremely efficient and cost very little to operate.

2Biz,

If you will have a greater rise from the temperature coming in from the city for the fresh domestic water than what you normally have with the floor heat return boiler water ... the extra condensation should produce even more efficiency. Also the gain from the better specific gravity of the non antifreeze water will also work in your favor efficiency wise. Have you looked at the temperature rise ... I am not sure what your incoming temperature of your city domestic water is & how it compares to our very low incoming temperature from the Missouri here in Bismarck year round.

Avoiding rinsing with warm or hot water like you plan ... certainly is logical & makes sense from my perspective & actual experience.

Another thing that sticks in my cranium is Randy's no tank zero regulator experience with almost no pump troubles such as washouts etc. With small couple of gallon float tanks we have had no washouts but for some reason I am thinking that our KR variable pressure dump guns help that ... but I can't say 100% for sure on that ... because I don't know how our volume of pump usage compares with some operators who have had pump problems such as washouts. Maybe Randy can comment a bit more on that aspect of your changeover.

mike walsh king koin

 

[2Biz]

Mike,

I guess I was comparing a typical NG hot water heater with the more energy efficient ones like the Polaris, AO Smith, or Rheem to name a few. Even though they are more expensive initially. there will be a payoff in the long run. Plus the recovery rate and GPH of heated water is so much better than a standard heater. This allows a much smaller tank size to get the same or more GPH of heated water.

Eliminating the Hot/Cold water tanks also has its advantages that I'm looking at. It will be a huge space saver since space is usually a premium in an equipment room. Plus the condensation created by open hot water tanks will be eliminated. In my mind there are way too many pro's to going tankless on the water side. The only way to get rid of mix tanks is with Dosatrons, and I'm not ready to fork out that kind of money to switch.