More LED Questions

[chuck]

I was approached by my electric provider to switch from MH to led lights.

I now have: 7 175w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 70w leds

3 150w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 50w leds

1 150 mv fixture that they want to switch to a 41w led

Total "list" price for complete project is $5157.00
My total cost for project after power company contribution is $1837.00

Payback on my portion shows 15 months

My cost seems reasonable, since led prices would have to drop a bunch to make up for the contribution of the power company.

My concerns are: Size (output) of replacement lights
How reliable are LEDs since they are somewhat new
How they hold up in extreme weather (northern NY)
Any other things I have failed to think of or ask this company
Thanks for all input

 

[waright]

I would ask about 4ft. t5ho fluorescent lights. They are less expensive up front, they use 54w, they are proven to work well in car washes conditions, and you get new fixtures. Some led kits reuse your existing MH housings, so you may still have crappy looking housings. The t5ho lights are more than enough light to replace the 175 MH. If some of these lights you are replacing are outside the bays, maybe the led would be better because 4ft. fixtures don't look as nice on the exterior walls. T5ho are good in cold weather here in northern iowa.

I don't know why the power co. wouldn't go along with the t5ho, being lower priced upfront and using less energy than the 70w leds.

 

[chuck]

Thanks for the idea. More for me to consider. The proposed program would include all new fixtures (no retro kits)

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I would ask about 4ft. t5ho fluorescent lights. They are less expensive up front, they use 54w, they are proven to work well in car washes conditions, and you get new fixtures.

Keep in mind that's 54w per 4' T5HO bulb, which means 108W per fixture. I bought a few two bulb T5HO fixtures and don't think they provide the same amount of light as a 175w MH fixture.

 

[2Biz]

Or you could retrofit your current fixtures and use 85 or 105w CFL's? Total cost for 11 fixtures would be appr. $200...You'd save about 50% on your light bill immediately....

I started a thread a few years back on CFL conversions. There are lots of operators reaping the benefits...

http://www.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?6668-In-Bay-and-Vac-Station-Lights

 

[bigleo48]

Keep in mind that's 54w per 4' T5HO bulb, which means 108W per fixture. I bought a few two bulb T5HO fixtures and don't think they provide the same amount of light as a 175w MH fixture.

I've replaced a few 250W mH with T5HO and find the T5s have more light...especially after a month or so. Plus they last for years and are cheap to replace. The fixtures I have are $100 each incl bulbs.

 

[2Biz]

IF my fixtures needed replaced, I'd definitely go with T5HO's. I have one over my changer and it puts out a lot of light. But my Hubbels are still in good shape so the CFL conversion works great. I get just as much light out of 85w CFL's as I did the 175w MH's...Plus the light from the CFL's is a brighter white light. Better reflection off the white Extrutech Wall Panels.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Lets assume for the moment light output is the same or better. I do not know your electricity cost so i will use an easy and probably close # of 10cents per KWH, or if you burn 1000 Watts per hour it cost you 10cents. i will also not factor in cost of bulb and ballast replacement over the term. Just electricity savings. Another big unknown is how many hours per day on average you burn your lights. Again I will assume for this an average of 12 hours per day (night hours) over the course of a year.

I was approached by my electric provider to switch from MH to led lights.

I now have: 7 175w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 70w leds --- Savings 105 x 7 = 735 Watts per hour

3 150w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 50w leds---------- Savings 3 x 100 = 300 Watts per hour

1 150 mv fixture that they want to switch to a 41w led Savings 109 Watts per hour
<<< Total 1144 Watts per hour saved
Total "list" price for complete project is $5157.00
My total cost for project after power company contribution is $1837.00

Payback on my portion shows 15 months,,,

1144 watts per hour saved at 10 cents a KWH = savings of 11.44 Cents per hour x 12 hour average = $1.37 day

Net cost of project $1837.00 / savings of $1.37 day = 1340 days

Adjust your cost and hours accordingly But at these numbers the payback is 3.67 years.

One of the ways they shorten the payback on the comparison is they show the cost of burning the bulbs 24/7 which is not realistic for most. If they use that the payback is 1.84 years. They may also deduct for some bulb cost and ballast cost. The LEDs will seemingly have a super long life compared to other solutions, but it remains to be seen how their transformers and other elements will be affected by harsh car wash environments over 5 or so years.

 

[2Biz]

I can buy a lot of CFL's for $1847...Hoping to not shot myself in the foot, I've only had (2) 85w CFL's go out since April 2011 since I did my conversion. They lasted over 2 years before going out....

I bought (2) led flood lights for the house. They have 12v transformers in them to convert 120v to 12v. I wonder how long the transformers will last? The LEDs may last 20 years, but if the power supply goes out, what do you have? Something to think about...

 

[MEP001]

I was approached by my electric provider to switch from MH to led lights.

I now have: 7 175w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 70w leds

3 150w MH fixtures that they want to switch to 50w leds

1 150 mv fixture that they want to switch to a 41w led

Total "list" price for complete project is $5157.00
My total cost for project after power company contribution is $1837.00

Payback on my portion shows 15 months

My cost seems reasonable, since led prices would have to drop a bunch to make up for the contribution of the power company.

My concerns are: Size (output) of replacement lights
How reliable are LEDs since they are somewhat new
How they hold up in extreme weather (northern NY)
Any other things I have failed to think of or ask this company
Thanks for all input

Even though you'll have less light output, it may end up being better lighting because the light goes where you need it and not everywhere like with a wall-pack fixture. I wouldn't let the power company make that judgement though.

How well they'll last is dependent of the quality. Some of them will last as advertised, some will likely crap out in a lot less time.

LEDs are not affected by cold, if anything they'll last longer. The main reason they aren't making them brighter per watt than metal halides is because they don't dissipate the heat they generate very well.

I also looked at LED conversions before deciding to change out the 320 watt metal halies with 128 watt fluorescent fixtures. The light is almost as good, and on paper they should last 10 years with no maintenance.