Updating old wash (credit/debit)

[cwguy.com]

What kind of timer? Also am I the one selling the timer you need?

I'm pretty sure that system works with any timer in one direction.... up or down.

 

[cdreed06]

CC swipers are the way to go. Cryptopay has been great for us. We did have to change our timers to Dixmor 7. We did one bay at a time to make it easier on the pocketbook. IMO the changer route is not what I would do, just another step for the customer and another thing to fail. In our setup if the changer is out for whatever reason the bays are still doing business with the cards. We were out of town recently and our changer had a problem that we didn't know about until hours later. In going over our Cryptopay report we saw a huge spike that day. Just my opinion.

 

[wASHN4FUN]

What about an ATM at the facility? I have a company that will put one out there for no out of pocket expense. Is this a viable solution?

 

[MEP001]

If they'll assume all the risk, I see no harm in it. I still think you'd be better off accepting their cards yourself.

 

[mjwalsh]

What about an ATM at the facility? I have a company that will put one out there for no out of pocket expense. Is this a viable solution?

wASHNFUN,

ATM is the best fit for many of us. This is coming from a person who was very skeptical but finally went ahead about 33 months ago. The approach we took was to buy our own which meant that it has paid for itself a couple times over. No bull ... just the facts. We have bill acceptors in the bays & by giving out $5 bills we have increased the number of $5 bills in our acceptors significantly. Ideally, enough of us would request ATMs that also give out a chosen quantity of dollar coins as part of the payout. The technology exists, it is a matter of encouraging the ATM people to make this more common. Sure a cashless option on each coin box would provide redundancy but an ATM can also provide similar redundancy. We know our weather dependent business can be marginal so we are cautious about losing part of that margin ... especially when we are lined up during the busiest parts of a mild day in the middle of the winter. Also, I do not envision the customers who choose to wash in their driveways at home during the summer coming to the car wash because of an overblown perceived cashless convenience. Some other operators may see it different; but chances are they did not give the ATM approach a fair chance.

mike http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[cdreed06]

Isn't a ATM just another thing to have to fill up and monitor? I have enough people pulling in blocking my bays to change their $20 bills for quarters to take to the poker game or whatever. I can see this being a issue at our location. I'm glad it works for you. And of course our facilities and locations are different.

 

[cwguy.com]

So the ATM is at an unattended self serve? Also it's one of the cheap ones? I wouldn't install an ATM if they were free. I am already paranoid about being robbed.

Also Randy was saying that installing in the changer would be better until new cc regulation in 2015.

 

[mjwalsh]

credit - debit card upgrade timetable --- initial information

So the ATM is at an unattended self serve? Also it's one of the cheap ones? I wouldn't install an ATM if they were free. I am already paranoid about being robbed.

Also Randy was saying that installing in the changer would be better until new cc regulation in 2015.

cwguy-(the eric) & others,

To firm up what Randy implied: I did get in writing from the ATM distributor that it will be mandatory to replace the card swipes with Europay MasterCard Visa (EMV). Specifically, the liability from counterfeit card fraud will shift partially to the processor starting as early as April 1, 2013. Then gradually more & more to the owner as the Maestro EMV acceptance capabilities within the processor are gradually more complete as early as the 2nd or 3rd quarter of this year. By less than complete, they did not specify which specific cards will be the first to shift the liability. October 1, 2016 all MasterCard Liability Shift. October 1, 2017 Complete Shift of Liability as it relates to EMV (MasterCard & Visa). Those are the stated anticipated deadlines that the ATM distributor emailed me with one of its usual extremely comprehensive & easy to understand quality reports. This is what I have to work with based on 2 very recent emails & a phone conversation ... having said that ... I am not sure how this will apply to the various options for credit card acceptance in self service car wash bays & their vacs etc. Or how the expense during the transition period for the smaller transaction businesses will be recovered ... short term, long term or whatever.

I talked to the company on the phone about this & my ATM qualifies for a "free upgrade" as long as I do not wait too long & I am willing to mutually break the existing 5 year contract with a new one. By free they said that includes all certified labor in installing the new hardware. They said it amounts to what sounds like less than a dime increase (per transaction) on what is taken off our reimbursements of the extra "frosting on the cake" that we get for credit cards vs debit cards. I haven't had a chance to study the exact yearly impact from the new contract. They sounded like they were somewhat concerned about too many people trying to change at once if the owners delay for too long. It sounds like the technology is already here & could be ready to be installed within a few months.

What baffles me at this point is: how is the machine going to be able to accept both the chip card & the magnetic cards during the transactions ... more intricate circuitry? Also they said the new card will have to stay in the receptacle until the "less than a minute transaction is completed. I am assuming that the card will not have to stay in the receptacle in other devices other than ATMs???

If anyone actually has better information & shares from a similar credible source ... we should look, hear, & verify as much a possible.

As far as the security concerns of swapping out the money supply etc once a week or whatever ... I struggled with that ... & it really is not that much different than opening & closing our 2 Standard ChangeMaker Machines. They make them in the rear load models just like changers also. I will say this ... when I purchased my ATM ... the distributor had an extensive background check on me to make sure I did not have a criminal record etc. Another perk of the contractual agreement is they supply the receipt paper for free as we run out ... we just received 3 large rolls via UPS on Tuesday of this week. The ATM must be built pretty good since we have not had any significant breakdown expense so far in 33 months ... I hope I did not just create a jinxy situation.

mike http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[JGinther]

Just curious mjwalsh... If there was another car wash next to yours, and it was a mirror image of yours in every other way with the exception of having credit cards accepted in the bays instead of an atm; where would more customers go? I'm just sayin'...

 

[mjwalsh]

Just curious mjwalsh, if there was another car wash next to yours, and it was a mirror image of yours in every other way, with the exception of having credit cards accepted in the bays instead of an atm, where would more customers go? I'm just sayin'...

Hmmm... during times when the weather is such that both of us identical twins are lined up with customers driving away ... according to the viciously for "100% cashless" crowd ... at least 40% of the customers taken care of by the other twin (not my facility) ... will be routing whatever the current going rate of merchant fees portion to those in the processing loop ... making that same money not available for future nifty creative actual improvements. The other facility could possibly gain during the slower periods ... but then again we would scramble to find other ways to "tip the scale" so they will clearly see better overall value at our facility. My customers who tend to have more $5 bills & $1 coins on them than $1 bills spend 25% more based on observation.

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[MEP001]

... according to the viciously for "100% cashless" crowd ...

Now you're just making stuff up to try and prove your point.

Seriously, look up Aspergers or take an online test.

 

[JGinther]

... during times when the weather is such that both of us identical twins are lined up with customers driving away ...

No offense, but they would only be driving away from one of the locations... I would be one of them. And further to the point, I would really love the day that I could quit accepting cash at our locations without affecting business volume. I have 10 locations that require cash handling... It becomes a giant pain in the *** to count, deposit, sort, and whatever to keep up with business. I would feel like i was cheating if I didn't have to do that. It would be way worth the merchant fee to me. And imagine how much less our equipment would cost! I'm thinking of just taping an I phone to a post with a credit card reader at my next rehab.... People would probably think it was more user friendly now anyways.

 

[cwguy.com]

Jginther does make a good point.... If you paid someone $15 an hour to pickup, sort, count, log and deposit your money. It would cover the transaction cost. Then the bank is unbelievably slow with the deposit. You would probably save money switching to cc?

I would value my time higher then $15 though.

 

[mjwalsh]

Jginther does make a good point.... If you paid someone $15 an hour to pickup, sort, count, log and deposit your money. It would cover the transaction cost. Then the bank is unbelievably slow with the deposit. You would probably save money switching to cc?

I would value my time higher then $15 though.

That has not been our experience in terms of significant time involved. There are some of us on the forum including the Kevin Reilly family & our operation that use an affordable & reliable coin sorter counter & a bill counter. In our case, the coin counter counts are automatically put in a nifty database via computer network connection ... so we can even see the distinctive category counts. No need to be totally dependent on cyberspace!

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[cwguy.com]

I ment sorting bills.... I also guarentee my coin counter is faster then yours. How about that!

Also I know there are fancy bill sorters.... My Dad has one. The matter what cc will always win this.

 

[mjwalsh]

The matter what cc will always win this.

cwguy,

It really should not be an "all or nothing winner take all" It should be what is the better fit for the location & the best way in my opinion for keeping cash as a viable option by supporting the proper updating of our coin & currency to adjust properly for the reality of inflation & other factors.

A few minutes ago another business stopped in to prepay with our credit card phone dongle. The only upcharge we charged was for the extra service which coincidently corresponded with the exact upcharge that the dongle credit card people charge us. The truck driver picking up for the fleet of vehicles was as happy as could be simply because he recognized it was still a better value than a competitor who has CC & quarters only in each of his bays. We have $3 & $7 value coupons from Jim at Etowah that we sold to the truck driver to the tune of $50 worth. Most companies still have the ability to write out checks ... there we do not have that slight upcharge for that type of transaction. Please do not turn me into the CC Smart Phone Dongle people ... they may have me arrested. Remember this is something that needs to be kept a secret. I checked out JGinthers car washes in the Denver Metro Area & I agree ... I would rather not have to compete with him specifically. Although Bismarck did have well over 60 self service car wash bays here in town in competition with each other in the past ... & we did hold our own ... even though they tended to be 100% sure that we would be the ones biting the dust before them.

This thread was related to options for upgrade ... I shared a somewhat thorough very current private info from a credit card equipment company (ATM). Do you mean a person who got accolades from his English Teacher for excellent writing failed to communicate ... I feel so..soo bad that nobody even bothered to read it. I really do think that specific post about the EuroPay (EMV) that I invested time relaying ... thinking of being helpful ... could be pertinent info for our industry as far as relating to all credit cards & their equipment here in the USA with possible corresponding future dynamics of liability & requiring the in card chip (equipment revision etc.)

http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[Earl Weiss]

Jginther does make a good point.... If you paid someone $15 an hour to pickup, sort, count, log and deposit your money. It would cover the transaction cost. Then the bank is unbelievably slow with the deposit. You would probably save money switching to cc?

I would value my time higher then $15 though.

Simplistic examples:
$2,000 in CC charges with all in fees of 5% = $100 Adjust up or down if you think the 5% is off.
Gather, Sort, count, make deposit slip, package, take to bank, wait for receipt,= 2 hours? Again adjust 2 hours up or down. But using this example did it cost $100 in labor?

 

[JGinther]

Simplistic examples:
$2,000 in CC charges with all in fees of 5% = $100 Adjust up or down if you think the 5% is off.
Gather, Sort, count, make deposit slip, package, take to bank, wait for receipt,= 2 hours? Again adjust 2 hours up or down. But using this example did it cost $100 in labor?

This example obviously comes from a tunnel operation... and probably one where there is a cash register for all money. Its not even close to the same for a self serve or combo with changers, bill breakers, auto cashiers which give dollar bills, coin and bill vacuums, bill accepting bays, etc. like this post was originally concerning. Here is a realistic example from a self serve and auto type of operation:
Total one day sales: $750.00 Credit card % of sales: 70% = $525.00 Merchant fee = $26.25. Now pull all $225.00 in cash from coin vaults, sort and refill changers. Sort and refill bill dispensers, carry cash to bank, wait, etc. Many steps skipped. Total 4 hours. Note: you can save time per day by leaving lots of money in the vaults for theives to steal! Anyway that $225.00 in cash, if it had the same merchant fee of 5% would have costed another $11.25. Try to find someone to do all of that for $11.25 and not steal any off the top. And, something that allows a customer refund by clicking on your cell phone 4 times for that matter. Also, I suspect people won't vandalize a credit card reader as often as a meterbox or vault.

 

[Earl Weiss]

This example obviously comes from a tunnel operation... and probably one where there is a cash register for all money. Its not even close to the same for a self serve or combo with changers, bill breakers, auto cashiers which give dollar bills, coin and bill vacuums, bill accepting bays, etc. like this post was originally concerning. .

Actualy no. I was using my 8 Bay SS as a yardstick. 8 Bays = 8 Bill acceptors, 4 Vaults, 3 Changers, 8 Vacs, 6 vendors. Since I recycle quarters I don't count them except for spot audit. If I had to break it down (Assuming no thawing) I would say 25 minutes to pull all quarters from 18 locations and dump them. Pull Bills 20 Minutes for 8 Bill acceptors, 5 Minutes from Changers (already open for receiving Quarters) . Sort and Count Bills 40 minutes, 30 Minutes for travel and Deposit at Bank.

I also learned some vacs, vaults, bill acceptors and vendors are slower than others and can be done every other time.

Everything factors in like servicing auto cashiers, or counting quarters if you need to or seperating different denominations or tokens which I sure takes longer.

FWIW, tunnel wash with Single Point of collection and drop safe, $2000 probably takes 20 minutes or less to sort, count, and make up deposit.

 

[JGinther]

Ok. So take an average days cash sales, multiply by 5% for merchant fees. Thats the cost i would be willing to pay to not have to deal with cash. It doesnt work for your 8 bay?

By the way, the math from the example doesn't work because the claim isn't cash vs credit. In other words, provided you are already paying for the credit card merchant accounts making up x percent of sales, how much would it cost to pay the merchant rate to take care of the additional cash portion of sales? Also, is the 8 bay actually doing the $2000.00 average daily credit card sales?