FloJet Question

[Edie011]

The smart ones have an air solenoid "At worst" is not a leaky solenoid. Have a hose blow off at night and pump a 55 gallon drum of chemical in the floor, that's worse. Ask me how I know. You will need that solenoid eventually. Not to mention, that a leaky solenoid isn't a very big deal since you can put off replacing it for a long time if you kill the air to the pump. I have multiplexers, but can't tell you how to hook it up since I paid someone else to do it.

On a side note, it could save your air compressor from running all night as well, and possibly burning up.

My thoughts exactly!!

 

[Randy]

I’ve never had a hose break or come off from the Flo-Jet pump to the manifold, I replace the hose when they get hard and discolored. If it is a concern you could always use a 3/8” high pressure hose on the pump discharge side or install solenoid valve on the air inlet supply controlled by IDX MX-8. I had a customer who used the ½” Hydrominder suction hose on the Flo-Jet pump discharge, it didn’t last long until it popped, now that made huge mess. You want to use a reinforced nylobraid type hose.

 

[mjwalsh]

Quote Originally Posted by I.B. Washincars View Post

The smart ones have an air solenoid "At worst" is not a leaky solenoid. Have a hose blow off at night and pump a 55 gallon drum of chemical in the floor, that's worse. Ask me how I know. You will need that solenoid eventually. Not to mention, that a leaky solenoid isn't a very big deal since you can put off replacing it for a long time if you kill the air to the pump. I have multiplexers, but can't tell you how to hook it up since I paid someone else to do it.

On a side note, it could save your air compressor from running all night as well, and possibly burning up.
My thoughts exactly!!

My thoughts exactly!!

Edie,

Just to add to I.B.'s (Pat's) thoughtful points ... even though your weather is not as cold in Ohio as here in North Dakota ... you may want to do like we do & blow out some of filled with liquid lines depending on how low your current outdoor temperatures are. Even though it is probably low risk ... I am thinking that if a chemical solenoid developed a slight leak ... it could cause a freeze up in a line you had thorougly blown out to prevent such a problem.

2Biz's alternative to a multiplexer could actually take up less space with the thinnest Phoenix relays on a small piece of 35mm din rail. These items can be looked up online & purchased at www.mouser.com. We like the screw-less version of the relays & crimp ferrules on or use solid wire ... making them more vibration proof & whatever wire connect & disconnect instant & easier. Also both the relays & their bases slip in & out with minimum effort. Visualize a pit stop crew at a the professional car races ... when something goes down ... in our case it could be during a peak business window of opportunity timeframe. Seriously ... between getting more of your customers to use $5 bills & dollar coins & top notch service friendly equipment ... you could consistently get great thorough put when the perfect car washing weather conditions all line up!

http://s26.photobucket.com/user/mjwalsh/media/preflojetsolenoids.jpg.html

The above picture link shows the 3 solenoids that happen to be stainless Ascos but could be other 24VAC brands. One of the 3 Flojets is partly shown off to the left. ... if you plan & sketch you can have your wiring much neater than what this specific afterthought improvising shows. Maybe as neat as 2Biz's even. The 24VAC low voltage is more forgiving when the inspectors visit us! Since your portions that only have the air & chem manifolds must be similar to the rest of us ... I did not include that detail in the picture.

mike walsh http://kingkoin.com/USA_Deficit_Reduction.html

 

[MEP001]

On a side note, it could save your air compressor from running all night as well, and possibly burning up.

That's why I run a continuous-duty compressor.

In my experience, it's more likely to have a multiplexer fail than to have a bad solenoid or blown hose dump a barrel of soap down the drain.

 

[cwguy.com]

That's why I run a continuous-duty compressor.

In my experience, it's more likely to have a multiplexer fail than to have a bad solenoid or blown hose dump a barrel of soap down the drain.

I visited a wash where they purchased a huge continuous-duty ir compressor which actually didn't help at all.... because what happens is the starter cap blows. It was also filled with 80 gallons of water. One flojet basically killed the compressor.

But I understand your point..... You are right about the compressor.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

That's why I run a continuous-duty compressor.

In my experience, it's more likely to have a multiplexer fail than to have a bad solenoid or blown hose dump a barrel of soap down the drain.

That continuous duty compressor may very well survive the night, but that Flojet running continually will be gobbling up a bunch of air that is needed to keep the car wash going.

I've not had a multiplexer go bad, but have twice lost a barrel of chemical that I would not have if the air pumps hadn't pumped it down the drain. Killing the air to those pumps is a good thing.

And Randy, one of those hoses that blew off was 1/2" poly-braid hose with a wide hose clamp. That stuff gets hard as a rock and sometimes doesn't seal or grip well any more.

 

[cwguy.com]

twice lost a barrel of chemical

I have had the flojet problem also but....

I have had something worse then a whole barrel of chemical..... I had a whole barrel and the Police call me. What about a solenoid on your hydrominder also? In case you hydrominder gets stuck? This could happen also?

 

[Edie011]

I have had the flojet problem also but....

I have had something worse then a whole barrel of chemical..... I had a whole barrel and the Police call me. What about a solenoid on your hydrominder also? In case you hydrominder gets stuck? This could happen also?

My hydro under stuck open not to long ago. Good thing I caught it quick enough

 

[MEP001]

I visited a wash where they purchased a huge continuous-duty ir compressor which actually didn't help at all.... because what happens is the starter cap blows. It was also filled with 80 gallons of water. One flojet basically killed the compressor.

A bad FloJet can't put water in the compressor, nor will it cause the starter on the compressor to blow. It was the fault of the POS motor I/R uses.

 

[cwguy.com]

A bad FloJet can't put water in the compressor, nor will it cause the starter on the compressor to blow. It was the fault of the POS motor I/R uses.

UPDATE: I don't know.... thinking about this more you are right Mep1. My ir compressor really wasn't anywhere close to as nice as my 100 year old rol-air. But the compressor I was talking about was not mine.


The flojet did cause the motor starter cap to blow in this case.... because the compressor was filled with water (never drained). Which made the motor need to cut on more often.... because of the bad flojet demanded the air constantly (small leak). So one flojet took down the whole system.

But the point was the motor does need to start and stop.... which does cause issues. Being rated to run constantly run.... isn't the same as starting and stopping 500-10k times a day.

But you are correct I would never purchase an ir product.... I went to an ir store and talked to a rep. I was trying to purchase a part.

 

[MEP001]

Like I said, the crappy motor they use (plus the tank being full of water) is what caused the capacitor to blow.

Other than the motors, there's really nothing wrong with I/R compressors. I had to replace the motor on the one in use, which came out of another wash. It was removed because it kept tripping, but that was also because the tank was full of water.

 

[2Biz]

The smart ones have an air solenoid "At worst" is not a leaky solenoid. Have a hose blow off at night and pump a 55 gallon drum of chemical in the floor, that's worse. Ask me how I know. You will need that solenoid eventually. Not to mention, that a leaky solenoid isn't a very big deal since you can put off replacing it for a long time if you kill the air to the pump. I have multiplexers, but can't tell you how to hook it up since I paid someone else to do it.

On a side note, it could save your air compressor from running all night as well, and possibly burning up.

Ok, Ok....I get the picture...But....I only use 5 gallon pails of soap that are usually only half full. If one of those dumped, it would only cost me about $17.50! A lot cheaper than a Multiplexer or a bank of relays which can also fail and starve the whole system! Tell me, how do you save an air compressor when the pressure switch sticks and the safety valve pops? That just happened to me last week. Compressor was smoking hot. ER filled with smoke! My way of thinking, is you can't fool proof every function at the wash. Things are going to happen and you have to minimize damage when they do...Just sayin!

 

[JGinther]

"Perfection in engineering is achieved not when the last part has been added; rather, when the last part has been removed."

So to answer 2Biz, remove the air compressor...

 

[2Biz]

"Perfection in engineering is achieved not when the last part has been added; rather, when the last part has been removed."

So to answer 2Biz, remove the air compressor...

Hmmmm...So...Can we do what we do without one?????? Maybe we should give that some thought!

 

[Stuart]

Your compressor motors must not have the internal thermostat shut off?
I also have 2 check valves between my flojets and compressor.
I have 25 gal /single stage compressors- I do not have an automatic with services with air.

For my chemicals, I do not draw out of anything with more than 5 gallons . With the dilution ratios as high as they are, when I do have a solenoid valve leak I have never gone thru a 5 gallon jug. (I however did have a pile of foam six foot tall and 15 foot wide in the bay-oh what a sight.)
This past fall I replaced my tire clean and presoak procons with flojets. The TC procon was always leaking within 3-5 months after replacement (tried brass and stainless), replacing at least 1 bladder tank each 18 months.
I have had a multiplex controller in use with different equipment in the wash for 8 years with no problems with the unit.

Installed flojets and needle valves on each air and chemical line to the bays. With the needle valves I can control the amount of chemical and air to the bays. I run between 70# to 80# air on the pump and air line. I plan on installing a flojet on FB this year.
At my other location I have had all 3 products on flojets since 10/2010 with no problems.
FWIW

 

[Theckie]

Same thing I do.

Can I emulate this?
I want to do the same thing you do. It makes a lot sense.

In reading through these post I was unable to determine what these relays are? You mention in at one point to get it at mouser.com. Any help is most appreciated.

Thanks

 

[MEP001]

Zoro has them cheaper than Mouser, and there's a 20% code good thru Oct., SITEWIDEDM that makes them less than $9 each relay and base pair.

Omron General Purpose Relay, 24V AC Coil Volts, Square, 5 Pin, SPDT G2R-1-S-AC24(S) | Zoro

Order Omron General Purpose Relay, 24V AC Coil Volts, Square, 5 Pin, SPDT, G2R-1-S-AC24(S) at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Omron P2RF-05-E $4.77 Relay Socket, Elevator, Square, 5 Pin, 10A | Zoro.com

Order Omron Relay Socket, Elevator, Square, 5 Pin, 10A, P2RF-05-E at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[Randy]

By the time you source the relays, build a relay panel, wire up the relays you could have installed an IDX MX-8 Multiplexer and be done with it. https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-24000-idx-mx8-controller.aspx

 

[Theckie]

At this point, I consider the learning as more valuable than my time... MX-8 is by far a quicker approach. Randy, as your signature says: it never ends.

I would like to get into DIN rails, wiring and such. This would help me build confidence going into more challenging electrical changes.
MEP001 framed the scenario pretty well. Can drop $100 and be done with it, or spend less and learn about relays and rails with a viable long term solution.

It is in my dreams/future plans to update my wash and use DIN, VFDs, and other 'smart' tech. Worst case, MX-8 is always an alternative solution.

Thanks MEP001!

 

[Randy]

When I was a young man this would have been fun a little project now my time is too valuable to be spending a lot of time at the car wash. I can understand why you want to learn as much as you can about control circuits etc. When I first started working it was beat into my head KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, that's stuck in my head for the last 45 years.