Equipment questions for small self serve for sale

[area123]

I've been seeking advice about buying this 3 bay SS very cheap. Now I just have a few specific equipment questions. Just wondering if the equipment is pretty standard and low or high maintenance & looking for general advice and what to expect & suggestinos about possible upgrades to save on utilities (particularly on hot water). I don't want to purchase only to find out the equipment is junk.

I had a tour with the owner. Most of the equipment he had installed professionally, but he is also pretty handy and does some things himself. Below is what I found out he had.

most equpment is about 12 years old except new softeners & the spot free system has been upgraded

3 model 623 CAT pumps about years old
3 5hp motor
3 Raco self service pump unit, 1 on each pump rack
3 separate stainless soap tubs where he mixes powder soap into each, they each have a smaller tub next to them with a float system, I think for mixing hot water
1 gas 50 gallon Whirlpool hot water heater
1 electric 50 gallon State water heater
2 new Kenmore water softeners
Sparkle Spot free rinse system with a new 180 gallon tank (I'm not sure how this thing works yet but he says these waste a lot of water), he also just had something done that cost about $600 for replacing some chemical in the filter for the spot free system
2 stainless tanks, 1 for presoak and 1 for brush foam.
1 large air compressor he says for controls and to operate presoak and brush somehow.
1 coin changer with new internals
3 coin takers in the bay

 

[Waxman]

you've got to list brand and model on 'coin takers' and 'coin changer'

have you tested everything to see if it works?

 

[area123]

you've got to list brand and model on 'coin takers' and 'coin changer'

have you tested everything to see if it works?

I'm not sure of the models of those. Just that he said the changer was $2000 in 2002. And has new internals now.

Everything seemed to work. I've used it several times and was I inside the pump house while about 10 customers went thru.

 

[Randy]

Did you happen to take pictures of this car wash? The Bill Changer can't be much if he paid $2000 back in 2002. How much does he currently charge to use the car wash?

 

[area123]

I just took a few pics inside the pump room. I'll see if I can post.

 

[robert roman]

“Just wondering if the equipment is pretty standard and low or high maintenance & looking for general advice and what to expect”

“…..most equpment is about 12 years old….”

The equipment listed is typical and has about a ten-year life expectancy when new.

So, if equipment is in average condition, it might be worth $0.10 to $0.15 on the dollar and expect high maintenance.

 

[area123]

10-15 years? I've readon here most of the equipment has about a 25 year life. But good to know. I'll keep that in mind. Most of this stuff is 10 or 12 years old. But a lot has been replaced recently. I'm also guessing it varies depending on usage and climate, etc. It's not too cold here and this wash is definitely not busy compare to most.

 

[cantbreak80]

3 model 623 CAT pumps about years old
Cat 623s are piston pumps, with many moving parts. Capable of 1200 psi (when operated at 100%) they are typically set to run slower and more reliably at 900 to 1000 psi. They need a bit more attention and service than the more modern plunger pumps, but parts are readily available and reasonably priced.

3 5hp motor
More than enough HP to operate the 623s. Should the pumps be “updated” in the future, these motors can remain in place and allow for 1,200-1,400 psi at 3.6+ gpm.

3 Raco self service pump unit, 1 on each pump rack
Gotta see it to comment, but unless they’re rusted/corroded/falling apart, they’ll likely outlast everything.

3 separate stainless soap tubs where he mixes powder soap into each, they each have a smaller tub next to them with a float system, I think for mixing hot water
There are simpler and more automatic ways to blend and deliver solutions but, for a small low volume facility, manually mixed solutions are quite reasonable and cost effective. You just can’t go away for a long weekend without some backup assistant to keep tabs on things.

1 gas 50 gallon Whirlpool hot water heater
1 electric 50 gallon State water heater
Residential quality water heaters which may be near the end of their life expectancy. Reasonable components for a low volume operation but be prepared for replacement, especially if there is no thermal expansion tank installed on the incoming water service. The anode rods need to be inspected regularly…something that is frequently overlooked.

2 new Kenmore water softeners
Again, residential quality items that are capable but with limited life expectancy. Possibly the limiting factor for future pump upgrades or increased/steady business due to their flow rates.

Sparkle Spot free rinse system with a new 180 gallon tank (I'm not sure how this thing works yet but he says these waste a lot of water), he also just had something done that cost about $600 for replacing some chemical in the filter for the spot free system
Reverse Osmosis Spot Free Rinse machines are purely mechanical…no chemicals are utilized, so this is confusing. And, yes…they typically discharge at least 50% of the supplied water to drain. However, there are ways to capture or recycle the “waste” water. Make sure the system is always fed with soft, chlorine-free water.

2 stainless tanks, 1 for presoak and 1 for brush foam.
No comment needed on these typically trouble-free containers


1 large air compressor he says for controls and to operate presoak and brush somehow.
Compressed air is needed to mix with the foaming brush soap to create the foam. And, the pre-soak and foam brush pumps are likely compressed air powered.

1 coin changer with new internals
We veterans call this the Bill changer. They don’t make money for you but, you’ll be out of business without one. Spare parts, and the ability to keep them operating is very important.

3 coin takers in the bay
The meter boxes have to work! Make sure there are spare coin acceptors, timers, and rotary switches in inventory. And, be absolutely sure the coin acceptors are modern, up-to-date items that resist slugs and stringing.

 

[area123]

Great info! Thanks

So is the sparkle system RO or DI? When he showed me this tall cylindrical housing that looked like a cutting torch bottle, he said it was actually part of the spot free system. He said a technician had come and put some chemicals in it and charged him $600. He also has a carbon filter on the spot free and a large storage tank. He said the pump runs all day to refill that tank when it's empty and that it wastes a lot of water.

 

[MEP001]

That would be the charcoal prefilter that was serviced then. DI systems don't need to run and fill a tank.

 

[2Biz]

I think your getting a little confused. The tall cutting torch looking bottle is likely the charcoal filter. It removes chlorine from the water that would normally ruin the membrane without it. The other filter you talk about is probably just a small pre-filter, About 10-12" tall? The purpose of this filter is to remove solids down to about 5 microns.

SFR systems waste a lot of water because they continually flush the membrane when making SFR water. Mine flushes about 2 gallons down the drain for every gallon it puts in the tank.

Did you figure out how to post pictures to the forum? Pictures will help us help you! Posting pics here isn't the easiest thing to do. A lot of us here use an image hosting site and link pictures from there. There are a lot of free ones on the internet.

 

[MEP001]

3 5hp motor
More than enough HP to operate the 623s. Should the pumps be “updated” in the future, these motors can remain in place and allow for 1,200-1,400 psi at 3.6+ gpm. [/COLOR]

FWIW, I run a separate pump for washing down the lot, just a Cat 5CP on a 5HP motor and I run it at 1800 PSI with a 2508 tip. That puts it at max load, so there's definitely a lot of room for improved pressure with a 5HP motor.

 

[area123]

thanks for the info!

I've been reading about the RO systems, and yes it looks just like one of these, but maybe a different brand.

https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.48.902.4962/1629#

The guy thought they replaced some chemicals for $600, but I bet they replaced the membrane. He thought they were working on that tall charcoal filter, but hopefully that wasn't $600!

Is the membrane in the tall stainless tubes?

 

[area123]

View attachment 717

here's my attempt to attach a file.

 

[MEP001]

Instead of attaching files, use a hosting site (Photobucket is free but dodgy, Facebook is free, just make sure you create an album that's shared with the public, Imageshack is simple and has a smartphone app but it costs $5 a year now) then you can insert images straight into a post with no size restrictions:

I don't see the stainless tubes in the picture, but that's where the membranes are. Hopefully for $600 they should have replaced the membranes and the charcoal.

 

[Greg Pack]

I don't care for those particular cat pumps. As mentioned, if it says kenmore it is residential grade stuff. Bill changer is a big ?, probably an American due to initial price being so low. If the equipment frames are stainless steel you can make everything work for decades by changing out components as they wear out or break. As indicated, pics would be enormously helpful.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

I don't care for those particular cat pumps.

I'm just the opposite. My wash with 623's does well above the national average (lots of hours on the pumps). The pumps are close to 40 years old and still going strong. They are original to the carwash. If they didn't cost twice what other pumps cost (CAT 310 for example), I would convert my other washes to them.

 

[ToFarGone]

I have an 8 bay Raco pump rack that is 32 years old. Still in good condition and completely functional. Hell the paint is still shiny. The plates where the pumps mount look a little "swiss cheesey" from trying different pumps over the years. Other than that they are a very solid unit. Wipe them down every other week and they will last.

 

[MEP001]

I'm just the opposite. My wash with 623's does well above the national average (lots of hours on the pumps). The pumps are close to 40 years old and still going strong. They are original to the carwash. If they didn't cost twice what other pumps cost (CAT 310 for example), I would convert my other washes to them.

If you know how to work on them yourself, that's one thing. We used to have customers insist we replace all their 623 pumps with 310s or 5CPs or General pumps because they're so hard to work on.

 

[Jeff_L]

You have a lot of questions, which are good ones and we don't mind answering them at all. However, I speak for myself, but I'm worried about you, lol. Is there another wash owner nearby, but not considered competition you could befriend? Going to his site and seeing how things run first hand would really benefit you. Car wash owners are pretty talkative and proud of their setups, I assume it's because we do the majority of our own maint and like to show off new ideas and such.

For example, one owner I visit with frequently is literally next door to me. We share thoughts and ideas often.