Water softener
- Thread starter HCW
- Start date
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
IMHO, the worst thing you can do is undersize the water softener based upon the monthly consumption.
Because car washes enjoy peak days during the “washing season”, the softener system should be sized for those peak days and not for the average daily consumption. An undersized system will limit your throughput, starve the pumps, and create issues when you can least afford them. Peak days provide an opportunity to impress the occasional washer and hopefully convert them to frequent washers.
With that in mind, calculate the maximum daily potential volume of the car wash:
IBA gallons per car * cars per hour * hours per day
SS bays * gpm * minutes per hour * hours per day
SFR gallons per minute
So, if the IBA uses 75 gallons per car times throughput of 10 cars per hour times 8 hours,
And, the self serve bays operate at 3.2 gpm times 40 minutes per hour times times 8 hours times 4 bays,
And, the RO plant is capable of 3,000 gallons per day,
Your car wash’s potential daily consumption is approximately 10,000 gallons. With everything operating simultaneously, the flow requirement is almost 40 gallons per minute.
With raw water hardness of 15 grains, a single 3 cubic foot softener will be exhausted at 5,100 gallons, a single 4 cu ft softener can make it to 6,800 gallons, and a 5 cu ft softener will treat 8,500 gallons. You’ll need a huge 6 cu ft softener to achieve 10,200 gallons with a single timed regeneration controller. And, it’ll need to be regenerated every day during peak season…not too efficient because we all know that peak days don’t always run consecutively.
A smarter system would use a twin tank, alternating, demand regeneration softener package with 40 gallon per minute continuous flow rate. Something like a commercial twin duplex alternating metered system with 4 cu ft resin tanks, 2” Fleck 2900S valves, NXT 3200 controller, and a 2” Clack flow meter. This would be my minimum selection…for about $4,500 (if you're a good shopper).
Because car washes enjoy peak days during the “washing season”, the softener system should be sized for those peak days and not for the average daily consumption. An undersized system will limit your throughput, starve the pumps, and create issues when you can least afford them. Peak days provide an opportunity to impress the occasional washer and hopefully convert them to frequent washers.
With that in mind, calculate the maximum daily potential volume of the car wash:
IBA gallons per car * cars per hour * hours per day
SS bays * gpm * minutes per hour * hours per day
SFR gallons per minute
So, if the IBA uses 75 gallons per car times throughput of 10 cars per hour times 8 hours,
And, the self serve bays operate at 3.2 gpm times 40 minutes per hour times times 8 hours times 4 bays,
And, the RO plant is capable of 3,000 gallons per day,
Your car wash’s potential daily consumption is approximately 10,000 gallons. With everything operating simultaneously, the flow requirement is almost 40 gallons per minute.
With raw water hardness of 15 grains, a single 3 cubic foot softener will be exhausted at 5,100 gallons, a single 4 cu ft softener can make it to 6,800 gallons, and a 5 cu ft softener will treat 8,500 gallons. You’ll need a huge 6 cu ft softener to achieve 10,200 gallons with a single timed regeneration controller. And, it’ll need to be regenerated every day during peak season…not too efficient because we all know that peak days don’t always run consecutively.
A smarter system would use a twin tank, alternating, demand regeneration softener package with 40 gallon per minute continuous flow rate. Something like a commercial twin duplex alternating metered system with 4 cu ft resin tanks, 2” Fleck 2900S valves, NXT 3200 controller, and a 2” Clack flow meter. This would be my minimum selection…for about $4,500 (if you're a good shopper).
MEP001
Well-known member
4 cu. ft. tanks would be a bit undersized in that application - yes, it can flow 40 GPM but it won't be able to soften at that rate.
You could cut down on your soft water requirements by running the auto high-pressure functions on hard water.
You could cut down on your soft water requirements by running the auto high-pressure functions on hard water.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
Other than what appears to be undersized piping, is there something wrong with the current setup that prompted your question?
Problem # 1 is that one of the two cylinders is leaking water at the top where the wrap meets the cylinder and I can't find anyone to fix it. Problem #2 is I can't get them set up properly(lack of knowledge) and the soft hardness is @ 0 grain when one of either tanks online initially but at the end when it's about to go offline the hardness is @ 14 grains. After lots of messing around with knobs, I got them to switch roughly @ 25000 gallons but same result. I was hoping for for a simpler set up and more efficient. Currently a pallet of 63 bags of Morton salt last us 2 to 2 1/2 month. BTW I keep the salt container topped off to the top.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
Yikes!
Hard to tell from the pics but the system appears to be twin 150,000 grain softeners with very commonly used Fleck heads. Check for an installation/service/user’s manual for the model number or post a few close-ups of the heads. Fleck parts are readily available, manuals are available for download and proper set-up is reasonably straightforward.
It seems your flow meter and salt dosage settings are out-of-whack because, based upon your reported average water consumption and raw water hardness, a pallet of salt should last at least 9 or 10 months!
BTW, If they are 150,000s…each tank will only provide about 8,500 gallons of softened water.
And, keeping the brine tank full of salt only makes it harder to work on when the time comes.
Hard to tell from the pics but the system appears to be twin 150,000 grain softeners with very commonly used Fleck heads. Check for an installation/service/user’s manual for the model number or post a few close-ups of the heads. Fleck parts are readily available, manuals are available for download and proper set-up is reasonably straightforward.
It seems your flow meter and salt dosage settings are out-of-whack because, based upon your reported average water consumption and raw water hardness, a pallet of salt should last at least 9 or 10 months!
BTW, If they are 150,000s…each tank will only provide about 8,500 gallons of softened water.
And, keeping the brine tank full of salt only makes it harder to work on when the time comes.
mrfixit
Member
Sounds like your salt dose and regen times are off. I like to leave my salt low regularly so I can be sure they are drawing brine and refilling properly.
If its a 150,000 grains unit - 15grains per gallon + iron content x3
Taking iron out of the equation it would do 10,000 gallons at the highest salt dose. But high salt dose is very inefficient. You'd be better to run 8# per cu ft and 80% capacity or 8000g
IME water softeners are many times undersized. Our sites had been replaced by kinetico to increase flow and they still put one in that's greatly undersized... (I was not here)
To size..
Take all your equipment, everything running water one a busy day. Add up all the gallons you need. In our case its 90gpm. So we need a softener system that can handle 90gpm - * when in Regeneration, and also account for backwash flow rates.
IMO these people have no idea what we need. They put two kinetico cp213 od's in (4tanks) when with this set up we would need 8 tanks! The distributor says oh it can do 80gpm, but what he failed to understand in his own line of work is that it can only handle 40gpm with a 15psi pressure drop while in regeneration.. Needless to say our current pressure drop is 50psi! When we are at peak the softeners regenerate all day 11 hours straight. And we struggle to maintain.
It is not the main.. We had a dog wash installed and it wouldn't even run with softener water. We put it on hard water and no pressure drop at all.
So get a softener that can handle all your water needs when in regeneration. Add more in parallel to add flow. Never take out an old one if its still working.. They pulled our old one and now I'm in the process of reinstalling it parallel to the new system.
One cubic foot of resin should only flow 5gpm through it for good soft water. This is an important factor many softener companies overlook.
If its a 150,000 grains unit - 15grains per gallon + iron content x3
Taking iron out of the equation it would do 10,000 gallons at the highest salt dose. But high salt dose is very inefficient. You'd be better to run 8# per cu ft and 80% capacity or 8000g
IME water softeners are many times undersized. Our sites had been replaced by kinetico to increase flow and they still put one in that's greatly undersized... (I was not here)
To size..
Take all your equipment, everything running water one a busy day. Add up all the gallons you need. In our case its 90gpm. So we need a softener system that can handle 90gpm - * when in Regeneration, and also account for backwash flow rates.
IMO these people have no idea what we need. They put two kinetico cp213 od's in (4tanks) when with this set up we would need 8 tanks! The distributor says oh it can do 80gpm, but what he failed to understand in his own line of work is that it can only handle 40gpm with a 15psi pressure drop while in regeneration.. Needless to say our current pressure drop is 50psi! When we are at peak the softeners regenerate all day 11 hours straight. And we struggle to maintain.
It is not the main.. We had a dog wash installed and it wouldn't even run with softener water. We put it on hard water and no pressure drop at all.
So get a softener that can handle all your water needs when in regeneration. Add more in parallel to add flow. Never take out an old one if its still working.. They pulled our old one and now I'm in the process of reinstalling it parallel to the new system.
One cubic foot of resin should only flow 5gpm through it for good soft water. This is an important factor many softener companies overlook.
Last edited:
mrfixit
Member
And as can't break pointed out.. We always end up breaking down on busy days!!! At the worst time.. When you have a major pressure drop everything is stressed. And no one likes hard water that much.. Although I would love to use it whenever possible to reduce costs and salt lugging.. I still am Leary of pulling hard water though all my pumps. Especially the big auto pump.
