motor contactor and thermal relay problems

[area123]

We are having problems with a motor not starting. it was working one minute and then i turned off the breaker to fix a hose, and when turned back on the motor wouldn't start. the timer is working fine and all low pressure is fine so the signals are getting there. but rinse and high pressure soap both do not start motor.

I also can't start motor by pushing in the contactor on the ABB contactor switch. I'm not sure if that tells me I have a bad motor of bad contactor.

There is also a thermal overload relay connected into the bottom of the ABB contactor. It has a dial for adjusting from 24-32 amps, I think it was set on 26. It also has a blue button that looks like a reset button. it does nothing when I push it.

Any ideas? I'll try to post some pics but I haven't been able to post pics yet.. and I figured these are pretty standard components (I could be very wrong).

The contactor is an ABB A16-30-10. I believe the motors are all 220 VAC single phase.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[BCWS]

Use an electrical test meter to troubleshoot.

 

[cantbreak80]

IF it single phase, you'll have a "double breaker". Try switching the breakers off and back on again...you might have only engaged one side.

 

[wash4me]

Bad breaker or you didn't get it turned on firmly enough.

 

[chaz]

Is there an in line auto type fuse that may be blown?

 

[2Biz]

Do you own and know how to use an Ohm/Volt meter? If you do own a voltmeter and know how to use it....Did you check for proper voltage at the contactor? When soap, wax, or rinse is selected, are you getting 24v to the contactor coil? Are your motors capacitor start indicating single phase 220v. Is the problem isolated to only one bay? When you switched off the breaker, maybe the breaker lost contact with one of the bus bars....Many things can be the culprit. But having a voltmeter will help you get to the root cause pretty quickly...

Its kind of hard to diagnose your problem since there are so many things that can go wrong. Having and knowing how to use a volt meter/Ohm meter is probably one of the most valuable tools you can have at the wash. You will have to start at the panel box and work your way to the motor to see where the issue is.

 

[Waxman]

This is how I trouble shoot; if something malfunctions right after I was repairing or maintaining, I go right back to where I was and double check what I did. Usually the problem is obvious but not always.

1. start at one end of the circuit and test. Is breaker on properly?

2. Is power getting to one side of contactor?

3. Is power there at other side of contactor when it should be?

4. can you run this pump in a manual or 'test' mode?

5. Is there a separate relay or fuse that is in the circuit for the pump/motor?

6. Are the wire connections inside the motor jct. box all good and tight and proper?

my first guess is something you just did is related to the problem.

 

[Waxman]

what happened with this problem? please update. thanks.

 

[Randy]

what happened with this problem? please update. thanks.

He got it fixed. Bad breaker

 

[area123]

Yeah, I worried about it all day hoping it wasn't a bad motor. Tested the breaker and it had a dead pole, so $20 to fix that!

And as Randy pointed out to me, breakers are not the proper way to switch things on and off. Its just that there is no other way to kill the 220 power to the motors other than unplugging them. I had the bay shut down because line had frozen and even though it was roped off I didn't want someone to try to use it.

It turns out that the thermal overload switch wasn't even connected. The other pump setups don't have one, so hopefully they are not needed.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I've heard that breakers are not the proper way to turn things on and off, but have never heard why. We all do it when necessary, with what seems to be, no ill effects. It seems a waste to put a switch on something that is intended to be "ON" all the time.

 

[MEP001]

Yeah, I worried about it all day hoping it wasn't a bad motor. Tested the breaker and it had a dead pole, so $20 to fix that!

And as Randy pointed out to me, breakers are not the proper way to switch things on and off. Its just that there is no other way to kill the 220 power to the motors other than unplugging them. I had the bay shut down because line had frozen and even though it was roped off I didn't want someone to try to use it.

It turns out that the thermal overload switch wasn't even connected. The other pump setups don't have one, so hopefully they are not needed.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

The best way to utilize the thermal overload is to run the control voltage through the normally-closed circuit and leave it set to manual reset. That way if it trips, the timer and coin acceptor will lose power and no one else will lose money.

 

[wash4me]

I've heard that breakers are not the proper way to turn things on and off, but have never heard why. We all do it when necessary, with what seems to be, no ill effects. It seems a waste to put a switch on something that is intended to be "ON" all the time.

Technically the breaker has to be switch rated but most are so I would do whatever is best for you. New breakers are pretty inexpensive if one should go bad.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I've heard that breakers are not the proper way to turn things on and off, .

I beleive they are not really rated for thousands of manual on off cycles.