I would talk to all those that offer conveyors and then sift through the bull$hit. Before you decide make sure that they are represented by a good local distributor. Visit existing wash sites and talk to the operator. Any research you do before you make your decision will cause you fewer problems in the future. If you can you might want to hire an independent consultant to help you but make sure they are independent. Some get a kickback from manufacturers or distributors. If all else fails talk to the best distributor in your area. When building your first wash it is important to work with someone knowledgeable that you can trust.
Tunnel from ground up.
- Thread starter APW
- Start date
robert roman
Bob Roman
“$700k for 2400 sf is almost $300 per sf construction cost. that seems to be more office building pricing. Car wash buildings should be a lot less expensive I think.”
Full and flex-serve and super site construction (pride of ownership property) is even more expense $/SF.
Stick building (glass and polycarbonate roof) is less than $100/SF installed but excludes mechanical, electric and plumbing work, lights, doors, slab, etc.
However, investors with $4 or $5 million site usually look for more than stick building or breadbox brick and mortar with pitched roof.
Full and flex-serve and super site construction (pride of ownership property) is even more expense $/SF.
Stick building (glass and polycarbonate roof) is less than $100/SF installed but excludes mechanical, electric and plumbing work, lights, doors, slab, etc.
However, investors with $4 or $5 million site usually look for more than stick building or breadbox brick and mortar with pitched roof.
robert roman
Bob Roman
If you are considering building a gas site carwash, I would read this before going to show especially since you already understand the convenience store business.
It’s a little dated but still relevant for fundamentals.
http://www.sccai.org/uploads/s/Stephen_J._Morse_ci_08.pdf
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c..._J._Morse_ci_08.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
It’s a little dated but still relevant for fundamentals.
http://www.sccai.org/uploads/s/Stephen_J._Morse_ci_08.pdf
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c..._J._Morse_ci_08.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
robert roman
Bob Roman
WarriorWash
New member
Thanks. I will find out who has local service/distribution. I do know that an Arizona distributor has worked with owners of several "local" car washes.
WarriorWash
New member
I will read both. Our C-Store also sells lots of gasoline. We see the car wash as an extension of the C-Store. I do not foresee adding pumps to the CW. WE have 21 at the store and "next door" access.
Thanks.
WarriorWash
New member
Thanks for the links. i read both and they are helpful. As I suspect is typical, estimating future car wash revenue is the tricky part. CPD counts should drive tunnel length, but we have to build the trunnel before we know how many cars we will will have. Are there any good rules for estimating CPD? We know how many stop at our C-Store daily (900-1000 in winter and 1200-1500 in summer). Can we use these to translate into an estimate for the car wash?
robert roman
Bob Roman
“….but we have to build the tunnel before we know how many cars we will have.”
I’m sorry but this is the exact opposite of how tunnels are usually designed.
For example, how can you determine if venture is viable without first knowing expected cars per hour capacity at peak times?
There are commercially available models like MPSI, regression analysis (in the literature) and traffic analysis that can provide data for peak times.
Otherwise, there are rules of thumb for making approximation.
Some of this information was in ICA’s 2004 presentation at National Association of Convenience Stores show. This was good presentation on fundamentals of carwash at gas sites. Maybe it can still found with search engine.
I’m sorry but this is the exact opposite of how tunnels are usually designed.
For example, how can you determine if venture is viable without first knowing expected cars per hour capacity at peak times?
There are commercially available models like MPSI, regression analysis (in the literature) and traffic analysis that can provide data for peak times.
Otherwise, there are rules of thumb for making approximation.
Some of this information was in ICA’s 2004 presentation at National Association of Convenience Stores show. This was good presentation on fundamentals of carwash at gas sites. Maybe it can still found with search engine.
WarriorWash
New member
I've used MSPI before, but I think recently they were bought by Kalibrate. I did not know they did car washes.
Please tell me about the rules of thumb.
I am hoping there will be resources at the show this week.
Please tell me about the rules of thumb.
I am hoping there will be resources at the show this week.
robert roman
Bob Roman
MPSI was acquired by KSS Fuels and then KSS changed name to Kalibrate.
So, it’s the same company and same model.
MPSI can be used for c-store and gas sites with carwash as well as free-standing carwash.
Old rules of thumb (gas wash rate) are presented in ICA 2004 NACS presentation mentioned.
As for the show, I have no idea as to what will be discussed or not discussed with regard to your area of interest.
Of course, you don’t need to go to a show to apply fundamentals of investing in income producing property.
Most people start with sanity test – is there a public need (demand) for a new wash?
At a c-store gas site, demand is mostly a function of gasoline throughput.
If there are 1,200 c-store customers, on average 75 percent or so have stopped to buy gas and the average purchase is 10 gallons.
Gallons = 1,200 X 0.75 X 10 = 9,000
Cars per day = 9,000 / 150 (conservative gas wash rate) = 60
Cars per year = 60 X 312 = 18,720
Here, public demand is low volume carwash. Next sanity test – is there public need for “tunnel”?
Short answer is no because 18,720 cars can be served with in-bay automatic. The reason is peak hour capacity (design criteria). 60 cars is peak hour of about 10 cars.
10 cars an hour is within range of most in-bays.
On other hand, if I was selling equipment, I might suggest more aggressive rate.
9,000 / 75 = 120 cars per day = 20 cars peak hour
Here, two in-bays or mini tunnel may be recommended.
Consequently, it’s wise to follow up sanity testing with formal use of information and models.
So, it’s the same company and same model.
MPSI can be used for c-store and gas sites with carwash as well as free-standing carwash.
Old rules of thumb (gas wash rate) are presented in ICA 2004 NACS presentation mentioned.
As for the show, I have no idea as to what will be discussed or not discussed with regard to your area of interest.
Of course, you don’t need to go to a show to apply fundamentals of investing in income producing property.
Most people start with sanity test – is there a public need (demand) for a new wash?
At a c-store gas site, demand is mostly a function of gasoline throughput.
If there are 1,200 c-store customers, on average 75 percent or so have stopped to buy gas and the average purchase is 10 gallons.
Gallons = 1,200 X 0.75 X 10 = 9,000
Cars per day = 9,000 / 150 (conservative gas wash rate) = 60
Cars per year = 60 X 312 = 18,720
Here, public demand is low volume carwash. Next sanity test – is there public need for “tunnel”?
Short answer is no because 18,720 cars can be served with in-bay automatic. The reason is peak hour capacity (design criteria). 60 cars is peak hour of about 10 cars.
10 cars an hour is within range of most in-bays.
On other hand, if I was selling equipment, I might suggest more aggressive rate.
9,000 / 75 = 120 cars per day = 20 cars peak hour
Here, two in-bays or mini tunnel may be recommended.
Consequently, it’s wise to follow up sanity testing with formal use of information and models.
WarriorWash
New member
OK.
Gallons = 1,200 X 0.75 X 10 = 9,000 This makes sense, but our number is closer to a average of 20,000 gasoline gallons a day.
Cars per day = 9,000 / 150 (conservative gas wash rate) = 60 Hmmm. Where does the 150 come from? Is it one wash for every 150 gallons sold? If so we'd be at 130 cars per day: 20,000 / 150 = 133.
Cars per year = 60 X 312 = 18,720 We are open 363 days a year and rarely have weather events. Can I go with 350 or am I missing something here? At 350 days we'd be at 130 x 350 = 45,500 cars per year.
What would the peak hour capacity be?
thanks once again.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Good God man, I've practically given you a mini investor seminar and you keep asking for more.
The criteria and procedures I provided are for sanity testing not feasibility study.
The reason is there are many factors that affect the performance of carwash at gas sites like branded versus unbranded, gasoline price discounting, carwash business model, marketing, existing competition versus potential future competition, cost to build, etc.
In other words, it would be unwise to make a Go/No Go decision based on limited amount of information possible in this venue.
The criteria and procedures I provided are for sanity testing not feasibility study.
The reason is there are many factors that affect the performance of carwash at gas sites like branded versus unbranded, gasoline price discounting, carwash business model, marketing, existing competition versus potential future competition, cost to build, etc.
In other words, it would be unwise to make a Go/No Go decision based on limited amount of information possible in this venue.
