Used Touchfree make sense?

[Waxman]

Tell me why a used touch free machine makes sense.

I know it will be less to buy, but what about installation / testing?

Can I still get factory support?

I found help w/ my superior side trac when the factory no longer supported the machine, but i like the idea of a machine that is faster, more widely sold with corresponding parts availability, factory parts and service on stand-by to help, etc.

 

[MEP001]

Buy a used machine that's still being made and has a stable presence in the industry and you won't have to worry about support. Otherwise, a used machine doesn't make sense unless you know you can service it yourself.

 

[mac]

There are some amazing deals on ebay. So long as you are hands on it shouldn't be a problem. I would think that any manufacturer would give you tech support no matter where you bought the machine.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

Except for PDQ they are not friendly on used equipment if a authorized PDQ distributor didn't install it and yes I am living proof no BS.

 

[mac]

I just don't understand some companies that are supposedly in business to make money. But that's PDQ's decision. I once had one of their distributors absolutely refuse to sell me any parts. At any price.

 

[MEP001]

It was PDQ's decision for one of their (presumably independent) distributors to not sell you parts? Was this for a machine you were servicing? I know they don't like to support other service people because it can interfere with their distributor, but I know a lot of people with their equipment, both owned since new and purchased used, who have no trouble getting parts.

 

[sparkey]

I almost bought a used PDQ machine once. They were the most un-cooperative people I have ever dealt with. I ended up buying a new washworld razor instead.

 

[mac]

In my case it was an independent distributor. I spent a few thousand dollars to have a lawyer send the distributor, PDQ, and their parent company a letter explaining commerce laws. All to no avail. That was about 10 years ago. It is that mindset that will pave the way to a poor business model, which seems to have proven true when you look at the success of Wash World. Someone taught me long ago that success is the best revenge. That distributor has been fired and he's now in the stages of taking down another company. He's the one that was in the Tampa area.

 

[robert roman]

“Tell me why a used touch free machine makes sense.”

It makes sense if the site is low volume because there are not as many as worries and potential headaches to eliminate.

Purchasing touch-less is more complex than purchasing a friction production unit. Touch-less uses more chemical and energy and three times the fresh water as friction.

Adding profit centers requires more moving parts and greater synchronization to produce less finished quality at relatively low speeds.

So, if you are low volume, looking for a deal at auction, e-bay, refurbished, downsizing of business, etc., a workhorse like 4000 might be a good choice.

 

[APW]

I bought and installed a used PDQ machine using a PDQ distributor and haven't had any problem. And the best part is I've had the IBA open 1 year and the machine just payed for its self.

 

[Waxman]

I want to install a machine that will make me more $$. Faster, better engineered and more time tested in the field than what I now have. I love the simplicity of my machine and work on it myself.

I think the customer wants ( my customer ) touchfree with underbody, foam polish and lights. They want it a bit faster than I deliver it now and they want to line up the car in the bay easier ( we use a blue tapeswitch pressure pad start and parking blocks as side guides).

For these reasons I think a new machine appeals more to me, but maybe not. we'll see I guess.

 

[rph9168]

Since you are willing to work on it yourself I think you should look for a good used machine with the options you are looking for. You might try talking to local distributors as well as on line sources. Sometimes distributors have access to good used machines at a decent price and will install it as well. I have seen some operators have some real nightmares buying a used machine sight unseen. The ones with the best results are in cases where they can go an assist with uninstalling the equipment.

 

[MEP001]

I want to install a machine that will make me more $$.

I'd recommend a friction. They're faster and less expensive to run, plus they clean better.

 

[robert roman]

“I think the customer wants (my customer) touchfree with underbody, foam polish and lights.”

Lights and underbody are easy, you can DIY.

However, foam polish is a misnomer. Polish is process of smoothing a surface with an abrasive as in leveling orange peel, removing swirl marks or oxidation, etc.

Most online foam polish products are siliconized soap that contains no abrasives. Rain-X, ICE, hot wax and other hydrophobic products have made tri-foam redundant.

“They want it a bit faster than I deliver it now and they want to line up the car in the bay easier….”

“I want to install a machine that…..Faster, better engineered and more time tested in the field….. I love the simplicity of my machine and work on it myself.”

That is tall order to fill since faster, better engineered is achieved with technology.

Today, only the largest of carwash equipment manufacturers can afford R&D. This means Ryko, PDQ, Belanger, Sonny’s, WashTec, etc.

Consider what WashTec invested its money in.

Convenience – I-wash interactive touch-screen allows customers to customize wash to specific needs and accepts mobile payments. Wash & Pay – wash first then pay reduces waiting time.

Quality – Multi-flex – articulating side-washer brush. Twister – friction wheel/rim brush. Softecs Pur – enhanced friction washing material.

Efficiency – WashTec Plus – online carwash management system. Wheelflash – applies chemical to wheel/rim during wheel cleaning process.

“I want to install a machine that will make me more $$.”

Specific answer requires knowing what you mean by “more $$.”

General answer is net profit = throughput minus operating expense. Throughput = rate at which system generates money through sales minus cost of goods.

So, more means a substantial increase in hourly capacity and/or the ability to charge higher prices (i.e. better finished quality, more profit centers).

“For these reasons I think a new machine appeals more to me…”

I would have to agree.

 

[washnshine]

I want to install a machine that will make me more $$. Faster, better engineered and more time tested in the field than what I now have. I love the simplicity of my machine and work on it myself.

I think the customer wants ( my customer ) touchfree with underbody, foam polish and lights. They want it a bit faster than I deliver it now and they want to line up the car in the bay easier ( we use a blue tapeswitch pressure pad start and parking blocks as side guides).

For these reasons I think a new machine appeals more to me, but maybe not. we'll see I guess.

The touchfree machines I have seen that speed up throughput the most while still maintaing an acceptable level of quality are the ones that apply presoak and high pressure to several sides of the vehicle at once (Oasis Typhoon) and the ones that have combined the rinse/spot free/sealers into "productivity cycles", where a separate, manifold can quickly apply the product/service (several machines are now incorporating this). With a touchfree IBA, there currently isn't much else that will speed up the wash cycle while still doing an acceptable job cleaning.

I know you are a long time operator - just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

 

[rph9168]

Gantry touch free washes are definitely faster and most do a better job.

 

[robert roman]

“With a touchfree IBA, there currently isn't much else that will speed up the wash cycle while still doing an acceptable job cleaning.”

Exactly.

Typhoon says up to 40 cars an hour possible. Yes, for quick cheap wet wash.

I got to watch one for a week while in Myrtle Beach some years back and did some counts. Without someone there, I’d say 20 an hour or so for mid-package is more like it.

Also, it’s a water and energy hog: 38 and 47 GPM pumps. It’s also one of the more expensive machines.

So, it needs high volume site and good demographics to support high prices.

 

[rph9168]

Trying to conserve water and power with any touch free unit is almost self defeating. All touch free gantries tend to use a lot of water and power not to mention chemicals.

 

[pgrzes]

I did a complete wash overhaul, 7 SS Bays, 9 Combo Vacs, and changed from a small 47' low volume express to touchfree auto for a bit less then a new touchfree would cost. For 120k I did a WW High Velocity, and Goldline Paystation, Coleman Super Saver pumpstand, 9 Coleman combo vacs. I also added new Airlift extremes and put a new A roof over top of the automatic.
Things have been going well enough that I just finished new GinSan Ultimate touchtron doors with MEI validators and Cryptopays, and just finished 3 new Air Shamees. I was able to pay cash for them with the increased revenue from the first upgrade.
I do most all work myself and my helper. I had the WW HV installed by a distributer, but do other work and maint. on our own. If your not a do it yourselfer, maybe not the best idea to do used, I like the challenge and more so the lack of a payment, slow times dont bother me any longer. I have been washing more cars through my automatic then my express ever did, more consistent numbers and higher per car avgs. Only my opinions so take it for what its worth.

 

[rph9168]

Sometimes it is better to "bite the bullet" and buy new especially if you can't find a used unit that meets your needs that can be verified to be in good condition. Sometimes all the work done to maintain and repair a used unit may cost more in the long run if you count down time and time and parts to repair it.