Cloth for Side Washers and Wrap Around Brushes

[hkim310]

What type (neoglide, perma color, etc) and brand (Sonny's, Eerie, etc.) of cloth do you use for your side washers and wrap around brushes?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I use Erie Cloth for my sides. Have been experimenting with neo glide for tops of wraps - looks great for a lot longer. Doesn't seem to fade or show any dirt. Cleaning may not be quite as good as cloth.

Lately i have been using filament on some 21" lower details and on the bottom 18" or so of some Van High Sides as well as on some lower details. I am going to continue with this. I may try it on the wraps. Erie makes it to fit the "C" Channel. I feel it gets in the wheel nooks and crannies better. Kind of stole the idea from a Sonny's set up I saw where they had filament lower details mounted on top of their tire brush. (No more tire brushes for me.) I believe in Filament. Had lots at one location until I replaced everything about 3 years ago.

 

[Earl Weiss]

In addittion went to Erie Foam as replacement for an AVW Top Brush. Get 3x the life out of whatever AVW was using. After about 75K cars it would fall apart. Erie's lasts .... well, I don't know how long it lasts. After about 300K cars I replaced it because the color seemed to go out of it and it looked dirty but wasn't.

 

[hkim310]

Does cloth clean better than filament for the painted surfaces of the car? Is that why you only use filament for the bottom portion of your side brushes? Would you say that in general cloth cleans better than neo glide? We are currently using perma color cloth from Sonny's on our side brushes and neo glide from Sonny's on our wrap around brushes. I've looked through this forum often and see that you have a lot of high praise for Erie so I though I might give them a try this time around.......

 

[washnshine]

Mixing wash materials will work if you have enough equipment. For example - cloth on rockers, foam on wraps, filament on wheel brushes. You then get the best attributes of each material.

I've also see c channel hubs that alternate one row of foam with one row of filament - all the way around the whole hub.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I think Filament cleans best all around. Sadly it's gotten a bad wrap. Proper lubrication with soapy water just like you need to do on cloth makes it just as easy on the finish as everything else. Filament conforms to contours better.

I don't know how alternating cloth and filament would work. I would have to try / experiment to see what I thought I would think the alternating would limit the ability of the filament to conform to contours and get in nooks and crannies.

 

[rph9168]

Totally agree with Earl. The past problem with filament was that operators either did not use enough chemical to lubricate it or they used a chemical that did not provide enough lubricity. In manyl cases vehicles were not scratched as is commonly believed. It was the filament marking the surface like a crayon might. With a little bit of elbow grease the "scratches" could be removed. The only real problem was that they tended to wrap around and tear off things like hood ornaments, wiper blades or loose chrome. Since there are not many hood ornaments around, wiper blades are designed better and there is little chrome or decorative strips around filament is about as safe as any other friction media. I have seen several automatics around me switch back to filament. I have used one of them several times with great results.

 

[washnshine]

I think Filament cleans best all around. Sadly it's gotten a bad wrap. Proper lubrication with soapy water just like you need to do on cloth makes it just as easy on the finish as everything else. Filament conforms to contours better.

I don't know how alternating cloth and filament would work. I would have to try / experiment to see what I thought I would think the alternating would limit the ability of the filament to conform to contours and get in nooks and crannies.

Earl,

I have not done this personally, but have seen it done on a Mark VII Wesumat rollover. I talked to the owner about it - he said it gives the brush a bit more "bite" especially on the rockers and fronts of vehicles. I'm sure it will not conform as well as filament alone, but in an IBA set up where the side brush is the wrap around, rocker panel brush and high side washer all-in-one, it will probably give some more cleaning power than all foam.

 

[rph9168]

The key to using filament anywhere is to make sure there is plenty of lubricity. That does not necessarily mean a lot of foam. Just make sure that the chemical you are using is recommended for use in a friction set up. There are some products specifically designed to provide more lubricity.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.......... is plenty of lubricity. That does not necessarily mean a lot of foam.

FWIW I spoke to Dan at Erie about relative lubrication of liquid vs Foaming on a product. His feeling was liquid lubricates better. Makes sense, the air in the foam would not seem to be a lubricant.

 

[hkim310]

We are thinking about going filament on the lower portion and cloth on the mid to upper portion of our side brushes. Will let you know how it turns out!

 

[TEEBOX]

We are thinking about going filament on the lower portion and cloth on the mid to upper portion of our side brushes. Will let you know how it turns out!

Who are you going with on the filament? Also, on which wraps are you putting them on?

 

[hkim310]

We are planning on going with Erie. We are putting filament on the bottom 18" and cloth on the remaining portion of the side brush. We are using a Sonnys SF50 side brush.

 

[hkim310]

We are planning on adding the cloth/filament on our Top Motor Side brush. This brush is located towards the middle of our wash tunnel. The question I have for any operator that is currently using filament is if we need to add an additional soap line before this brush or it it fine to just add a water line for lubrication as soap is applied on the vehicle prior to it getting to the Top Motor Side brush from our currently installed soap lines in front of both of our wrap around brushes. I want to make sure there is no marring on the rocker panel paint from the filament.......

 

[rph9168]

Depending on how much soap and the product you are using is applied prior it might be okay but I think you should consider applying some just before the brushes to increase lubricity. Make sure that the products you use for both applications provide lubricity. Even if they foam a lot they may not provide the necessary lubrication.

 

[Earl Weiss]

IMO if there was enough lube for cloth there will be enough for filament. Having said that all my contact equip has an application of solution with soap applied before it contacts the car. The concentration is a fraction of what is in the foamers so there is no rinsing issue.
Being anal retentive I noted that some euip from the mfgr is set up so that the liquid is applied at a point 180 degrees or more before the contact meaning a lot gets thrown off before the contact. I have set up the applicators on most side wheels (Difficult to do on both sides of the wrap0, so the appliction is no more than 45 degrees before the contact so less is thrown off before contact. Typicaly this requires the solution jet to be moved from the side Brush support to the next arch or may even require a seperate stand for the solution application. .

 

[rph9168]

IMO if there was enough lube for cloth there will be enough for filament.

Cloth tends to hold moisture adding to the lubricity factor but filament does not. I would not agree that they are the same as far as need for additional lubricity.

 

[Earl Weiss]

IMO if there was enough lube for cloth there will be enough for filament.

Cloth tends to hold moisture adding to the lubricity factor but filament does not. I would not agree that they are the same as far as need for additional lubricity.

That is the great thing about the forum. People can weigh different opinions. Yes cloth will hold moisture...... and other stuff as well. So, IMO, Bottom line, continually flush either / both with a lubricating / cleaning solution.

 

[hkim310]

I think as a safety, we plan to install a water line with small amount of chemical being applied. Thanks everyone so much for all of your thoughts/ideas. I' always amazed at how much knowledge I can gain from this forum!

Earl, for your tunnel where you are using filament and have installed water/chemical lines, what chemical are you using for lubrication and what is the dilution?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I think as a safety, we plan to install a water line with small amount of chemical being applied. Thanks everyone so much for all of your thoughts/ideas. I' always amazed at how much knowledge I can gain from this forum!

Earl, for your tunnel where you are using filament and have installed water/chemical lines, what chemical are you using for lubrication and what is the dilution?

I use the same dilution for the cloth and filament. Dilution is a tricky thing because you need to note what "Normal" dilution is for that product. I use KR Low PH which has a recommended dilution of 600/1 which is what I use in the foamers and pre soak. My tunnel set ups vary but at 3 the system basically has a wide open dema injector on the lines that feed the cloth and filament which draw from the hydrominder 600/1 bucket that feeds the foamer so that dilutes that at about 10/1.