310 manifold washout

[2Biz]

2Biz, thanks, appreciate the info. And the pics are an extra mile too
I did know all that, & agree with your conclusion that it wont last.
The sleeve was REALLY loose, I could actually wiggle it around with my finger when I set it in place (with the seal in it, oring in place.) And the blasted o-ring kept squeezing out when I screwed in the seal case. Yes I used the torque wrench, yes I had gasket sealer to hold it in place...
Maybe it was just me, I know that. But I think maybe the new guy bored this one out or something, idk.

Your assessment sounds correct. Someone bored the case too far oversize on Diameter for the Oring to do its job. There shouldn't be any more than a few thousandths or up to .005" difference in the SS sleeve Outer Diameter and the bored case diameter for the Oring to compress and seat properly.. I have a small vertical mill at home and tooled up to rework my own heads using the Oring method....The Tooling is set up for .005" clearance, so no way for the Oring to squeeze past the .0025" clearance between the Case Diameter and Sleeve. I put one in service about 3 years ago and it's still running fine. As with anything, quality control makes all the difference and often points out when tooling is getting worn out or someone just didn't align the head properly before machining it....Something I bet some of these small shops don't have. Unfortunately you get whatever they turn out!

 

[mjwalsh]

Is the following an equivalent alternative to sending in an older pump ... but with the net results as good or better than the stainless steel sleeve re-boring - O ring process etc???

Cat 310S Pump Stainless Steel Sleeve Inserts - Kleen-Rite (kleen-ritecorp.com)

If that is true ... considering there may be other things that can go wrong with an older Cat 310 maybe the price difference is not enough to be concerned about. IMHO it does seems to be a greater risk for lesser results with the re-bore process??? I suppose the actual age of the washed out original lower priced version of the 310 would be a factor!

 

[MudMoney]

Thanks for the feed back. I,m going to sent manifolds to 2 places and see what happens.

 

[ICEMAN]

i use IDS. If you are getting them done at kleen rite, IDS is doing them. They press fit the stainless sleeves. Well worth getting them done, head will last forever. Better than original. I also get brush heads from him and small parts. I have had 310 , 5cp and 3535 cat pumps done. I used to use dynajet. Looked at Vilco, did not like the system, oring is a weak spot

 

[2Biz]

Looked at Vilco, did not like the system, oring is a weak spot

Possibly if not machined correctly...I have about a dozen or more SS swivels on the HP hoses that use Orings to create a seal in a similar way. They work with the same high pressures while spinning in circles! Some last for many, many years. When using the oring method for repair on a head, if the case and sleeve are machined correctly, with correct tolerance and quality control, it seems to me to be a very good repair. But like PLJ said, the sleeves on his repair had lots of play in the case. Obviously not machined correctly...Even with press in sleeves, the average person wouldn't know if they were machined right either...If either repair lasts a long time, they were machined right. Luck of the draw I guess!

 

[mjwalsh]

i use IDS. If you are getting them done at kleen rite, IDS is doing them. They press fit the stainless sleeves. Well worth getting them done, head will last forever. Better than original. I also get brush heads from him and small parts. I have had 310 , 5cp and 3535 cat pumps done. I used to use dynajet. Looked at Vilco, did not like the system, oring is a weak spot

Iceman,

On your "better than original" statement ... I wonder if that could apply to if an operator would instead choose to get the following albeit $700 pump:

Cat 310S Pump Stainless Steel Sleeve Inserts - Kleen-Rite (kleen-ritecorp.com)

 

[ICEMAN]

original heads were brass seats, so putting stainless inserts in would be "better than original". I did buy one of the 310S. When one of the inserts fell out I took it to IDS. That was early on when the 310S first came out, maybe they have improved their process.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

i use IDS. If you are getting them done at kleen rite, IDS is doing them. They press fit the stainless sleeves.

the one I mentioned was done at kleen rite, definitely not pressed in. Yes it was 2-3 (4?) years ago so things may have changed.

 

[MD2020]

i use IDS. If you are getting them done at kleen rite, IDS is doing them. They press fit the stainless sleeves. Well worth getting them done, head will last forever. Better than original. I also get brush heads from him and small parts. I have had 310 , 5cp and 3535 cat pumps done. I used to use dynajet. Looked at Vilco, did not like the system, oring is a weak spot

Hello I’m Looking for the company IDS that you have used to rebuild your cat pump head? Website or contact info, I would like to connect with them and see if I can send them a couple of washed out heads. Thank you.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Hello I’m Looking for the company IDS that you have used to rebuild your cat pump head? Website or contact info, I would like to connect with them and see if I can send them a couple of washed out heads. Thank you.

Innovative Design And Sourcing, LLC

Offering Specialized Services Ranging From Pump Repairs to High Volume Sourced Parts.

idspumprepair.com

 

[MD2020]

Innovative Design And Sourcing, LLC

Offering Specialized Services Ranging From Pump Repairs to High Volume Sourced Parts.

idspumprepair.com

Thank you!

 

[8th Street Car Wash]

I had IDS sleeve two of my 5cp2150w heads. They have held up extremely well. Only downside is that it seems like it is more difficult to get in the high pressure seals after they have been sleeved.

 

[2Biz]

Lots to learn about the different ways to rework heads here: (Along with photos)...I have 2 heads in service that I used the SS inserts method (Not Pressed in) with orings and have never had issues with either head. The critical part is to get the chamfer just right on the SS sleeve washer for the right compression against the head for it to work right. From the dates on the photos documenting the process, I've had the heads in service for over 3 years now.

(33) Washed out 310 manifolds - With pictures | Page 7 | Car Wash Forum

(33) The "Tools I love" thread | Page 2 | Car Wash Forum

To update my Vilco style repair. The heads I had in service 2.5 years ago are still in service. So the oring method is holding up (5.5 years now) if done correctly. For newbies, the links above show/explain how its done! I can see where these can be machined in a setting where it is done by someone off the street...Not a real machinist. So if you don't have the experience, quality control will go out the window! With either method actually! I have three pumps I reworked with the Vilco method on the shelf...Hoping I won't need them!

 

[Randy]

I believe Vilco Supply is no longer in business. I called there (931) 473-5040 number and it's dead. There Web site is dead, but the Facebook page is still up, but the last activity was in 2019. I once upon a time had a Vilco head and it leaked like a wounded German U boat.

 

[2Biz]

Your right Randy, Vilco is no longer in business. They really need to clean up all reference to their business! You must have got one of the heads done late Friday evening, or on an early Monday Morning Hangover! If done properly it is a quality repair. I think 5.5 years on my rebuild is nothing to sneaze at. Propper Tolerance's is everything!

 

[ICEMAN]

If you are having problems putting in a high pressure seal after sleeving try the following. Lube the seal , place it in the hole, put in brass seal case and tighten the seal case down. The seal case will push the seal in for you. I have done this hundreds of times with never an issue. I recommend IDS for sleeving, they do all my pump work and have never had a problem. They are a real machine shop. Everything is done to cat spec.

Innovative Design And Sourcing, LLC

Offering Specialized Services Ranging From Pump Repairs to High Volume Sourced Parts.

idspumprepair.com

 

[2Biz]

IDS is no doubt a better repair. Even it has to be done correctly and to tolerance. I still have 2 Vilco style repairs (My Own) in service over 5 years and still run like new. So.....

IDS should post prices online instead of sending them the head "Then" giving a quote....I try to avoid this way of doing business. JMO

 

[8th Street Car Wash]

If you are having problems putting in a high pressure seal after sleeving try the following. Lube the seal , place it in the hole, put in brass seal case and tighten the seal case down. The seal case will push the seal in for you. I have done this hundreds of times with never an issue. I recommend IDS for sleeving, they do all my pump work and have never had a problem. They are a real machine shop. Everything is done to cat spec.

Innovative Design And Sourcing, LLC

Offering Specialized Services Ranging From Pump Repairs to High Volume Sourced Parts.

idspumprepair.com

Thank you Iceman, I will try this next time I'm replacing my seals. What do you usually lube the seals with? I've looked through the CAT manual, and it just states to "lubricate each seal chamber in manifold head" but not what to lubricate it with. I had an old rep that used petroleum jelly, but I've always worried about petroleum products breaking down the rubber seal, though I've never had any issues.

 

[OurTown]

Thank you Iceman, I will try this next time I'm replacing my seals. What do you usually lube the seals with? I've looked through the CAT manual, and it just states to "lubricate each seal chamber in manifold head" but not what to lubricate it with. I had an old rep that used petroleum jelly, but I've always worried about petroleum products breaking down the rubber seal, though I've never had any issues.

Your Cat crankcase oil or ISO 68 hydraulic oil.

 

[ICEMAN]

you want to lubricate the seal with KY jelly, water soluble and no chance of damaging seal