A few more Foam brush questions

[Martins]

Hey all back again for some more info!

First and foremost after getting my foam working again i noticed i wasn't getting any product to the bays... could hear the air coming through the brush but no product... so i went back to the ER and found my Foam brush pump not... pumping. So as my many years of mechanical expertise goes, i kicked the pump and wouldnt ya know.. started pumping again haha. So with that said its sort of accelerating my revamp of the ER and thinking about picking up the airlogic pre plumbed system since a replacement pump is about half of the cost anyway. My question is I'm looking for how some of you have your foam brush systems set up. (Diagrams/parts)

Currently half my bays have low pressure hose running from the solenoids And some are running poly tubing (which is what im thinking about re running all my bays this way.) but as previously stated half my bays also have foamers and others dont. (Thanks for the links on the foamers) But i cant seem to find the manifold blocks on kleenrite that connect the air line and product lines before they go to the bays.

my other question is those of you using the tankless injection options how do you like them. Pros/cons. Trying to make a decision quickly as i don't want my brushes down too long.

and laslty i know some of you have your trough heat tape hooked up to your weepmizers. What tape and whats needed to make this connection? Not having a weep on my foam id life to make this system work with the weep rather then running extension cords and such up there.

Thanks again!

 

[MEP001]

I mentioned in your other thread, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with your solenoid setup. You can replace your existing pump with a Flojet for $84. Air Logic systems are as basic as it gets, there's no control for the pump and the tank isn't sealed, so you could potentially introduce more issues with debris in the solenoids running all your product down the drain overnight.

Run separate tubing lines to the bay for liquid and air, then either tee them at the foamer or drill/tap two holes in the foamer for the fittings which saves a few bucks. Two 1/4" poly tube lines is much cheaper than 1/2 or even 3/8" hose. I recommend using black tubing which will resist sunlight and last longer.

One of the washes I deal with has Dema Mix-Rite pumps, and they are quite problematic, as well as expensive. It doesn't help that the water pressure is weak and I can't get the presoak to the bay the way I like it. It's all getting changed over to Flojets. The guy who put the Mix-Rites in has another wash where he uses Dosatrons. They're a little better but they start to leak badly when you turn the water supply back on if you ever have to turn it off.

 

[Martins]

I mentioned in your other thread, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with your solenoid setup. You can replace your existing pump with a Flojet for $84. Air Logic systems are as basic as it gets, there's no control for the pump and the tank isn't sealed, so you could potentially introduce more issues with debris in the solenoids running all your product down the drain overnight.

Run separate tubing lines to the bay for liquid and air, then either tee them at the foamer or drill/tap two holes in the foamer for the fittings which saves a few bucks. Two 1/4" poly tube lines is much cheaper than 1/2 or even 3/8" hose. I recommend using black tubing which will resist sunlight and last longer.

One of the washes I deal with has Dema Mix-Rite pumps, and they are quite problematic, as well as expensive. It doesn't help that the water pressure is weak and I can't get the presoak to the bay the way I like it. It's all getting changed over to Flojets. The guy who put the Mix-Rites in has another wash where he uses Dosatrons. They're a little better but they start to leak badly when you turn the water supply back on if you ever have to turn it off.

yea i saw that. Problem is i also found some of the foam solenoids are leaking so im either replacing them all and the pump or upgrading the system. So im leaning towards upgrades in general. I do currently have a closed tank figured i could just make a make shift cover if needed. But what do you mean control for the pump? Its either on or off?
As for the lines yes its currently ran that way also but with hose. Both air and product to the bay then or connected just before the foamer or before it drops into a bay back to a single hose. All mine are in the attack and covered so sunlight isnt much of a problem. Is there any special way to connect the air and liquid or just plug them together? I see there is a block on a bay but i cant seem to find it anywhere.

 

[MEP001]

You have an IDX MX8 controller mounted on the solenoid board which turns the air to the pump off when it's not in use. The Air Logic system doesn't have that (part of why it's so cheap) and it's a good thing to have. Without a controller, the only thing that controls flow is the solenoid to the bay, the pump is pressurized all the time (dead-headed), and if a solenoid hangs open it'll waste your soap down the drain.

You don't need any sort of block, you can use a tee and screw that straight into the foam generator. Without a weep system on the foam brush, there's also no need for the check valves. Something else I noticed in your other photos is that there's a high pressure hose going from some of the foam generators to the boom. You might want to replace that with 1/2" braided hose - the steel fitting will rust closed and block the flow.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

A simple question: how mechanically inclined are you? Can you change spark plugs? Since you're here asking these questions I assume you are doing the work yourself, which is good imo.
OK, now my opinion: You do not need a new "system", you need what most of us would consider some routine maintenance.

I suggest that you view the FB "system" as a bunch of individual components that can be dealt with separately. If I were king I'd tell you to just do what MEP has suggested, in the following order:
#1 replace your pump with a <$100 flojet so the FB will be working. That would take me about 5-10 minutes it I had all the right size hoses.
Then as time allows, improve your system by doing these 1 at a time:
-- replace hoses to bay manifolds with 1/4" poly
-- make your own foamers, or eliminate them as many of us have done
-- replace solenoid manifolds (or just repair existing)
-- add heat tape to the trough.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

Jim @ etowah valley makes a super nice compact system cleaner than air logic way nicer for same price comes with everything. I have instailed several you can always add a idx controller and a releif solinod like mep suggested

 

[cantbreak80]

I'd be happy to give you this vintage system.
It only needs everything!

Oh, wait. I just remembered...it was last seen in the dumpster!

 

[MEP001]

I'd be happy to give you this vintage system.
It only needs everything!

Oh, wait. I just remembered...it was last seen in the dumpster!

I used to manage a chain of 11 car washes that had FB systems very similar to that, the main differences were that it used a pump for the liquid, each foam generator was recessed into the plywood, and there were only 4 bays of plumbing per 4x8 sheet. It never worked right, I'd spend at least an hour a day every day trying to get bays to work, and with the ER at one end and 100' of 1/2" hose the last bays would take a full minute for the foam to reach the brush.

 

[Martins]

Forcing my hand after our first snow....

 

[Martins]

You have an IDX MX8 controller mounted on the solenoid board which turns the air to the pump off when it's not in use. The Air Logic system doesn't have that (part of why it's so cheap) and it's a good thing to have. Without a controller, the only thing that controls flow is the solenoid to the bay, the pump is pressurized all the time (dead-headed), and if a solenoid hangs open it'll waste your soap down the drain.

You don't need any sort of block, you can use a tee and screw that straight into the foam generator. Without a weep system on the foam brush, there's also no need for the check valves. Something else I noticed in your other photos is that there's a high pressure hose going from some of the foam generators to the boom. You might want to replace that with 1/2" braided hose - the steel fitting will rust closed and block the flow.

Out of curiosity, couldnt i hook the mx8 up to the airlogic panel and make it work that way? Ive seen alot of good reviews on the airlogic panel and a few iffy ones. Problem is i have a minor freeze up even with flowing a ton of antifreeze and had a leak at the old solenoids now..... im pretty much done with this set up.

 

[DiamondWash]

Why not go with the new Dosatron setup:

Dosatron Low Pressure Panel Packages | Car Wash Dispensing System

These modular systems offer pre-plumbed dispensers mounted on panels that are easily installed in a car wash chemical room!

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

 

[MEP001]

Out of curiosity, couldnt i hook the mx8 up to the airlogic panel and make it work that way?

If it were mine, I'd just replace the solenoids, but yes you can definitely re-use the MX8 and solenoid for the Flojet.

 

[OurTown]

Problem is i have a minor freeze up even with flowing a ton of antifreeze and had a leak at the old solenoids now..... im pretty much done with this set up.

What size tip do you have in the Hydrominder? You should be looking at the largest two or three tips for methanol soap and if it still freezes then take the tip out completely for 4:1. If it freezes after that (you will probably be below 15F) then it is just how it is. Put up a sign that states that they might freeze in really cold temps. Most people just hose-n-go when it is really cold. The Air Logic systems are nothing special and probably have lower quality components than you already have. We have a three bay FB Air Logic system and it seems a little cheap. The tank is crazy small and does not have a drain. Just replace your pump with a Flow-Jet, fix the leaks and tidy up the wiring and hoses.

 

[2Biz]

To show you what's possible for the DIY'er...Its easy to make your own PS and FB system. Old (2 bays shown) and New (4 bays) shown....I like flow meters, so I put them inline to get each bay flowing the same. My Pumpstand is pushing 50+ years old!

Also no MX8 needed for the LP air to the flojets. You can use a bank of relays to do the same thing. I got the New Idec relays for $5 each off Ebay. The Relay's below power the solenoids that control air to the FB and PS flojets for (4) bays.

 

[Randy]

Marty, Yes you could hook up a MX- 8 and a air solenoid valve on the air supply side going to an air logic foam brush system. All you really need to do is replace the crap DEMA solenoids and clean up the system. You’re going use a ton of anti-freeze foam brush soap so why not use weep water when the temperature is only into the upper 20's at night and goes up to the low 40's during the day.

 

[Martins]

You have an IDX MX8 controller mounted on the solenoid board which turns the air to the pump off when it's not in use. The Air Logic system doesn't have that (part of why it's so cheap) and it's a good thing to have. Without a controller, the only thing that controls flow is the solenoid to the bay, the pump is pressurized all the time (dead-headed), and if a solenoid hangs open it'll waste your soap down the drain.

You don't need any sort of block, you can use a tee and screw that straight into the foam generator. Without a weep system on the foam brush, there's also no need for the check valves. Something else I noticed in your other photos is that there's a high pressure hose going from some of the foam generators to the boom. You might want to replace that with 1/2" braided hose - the steel fitting will rust closed and block the flow.

Out of curiosity, couldnt i hook the mx8 up to the airlogic panel and make it work that way? Ive seen alot of good reviews on the airlogic panel and a few iffy ones. Problem is i have a minor freeze up even with flowing a ton of antifreeze and had a leak at the old solenoids now..... im pretty much done with this set up.

 

[Martins]

Why not go with the new Dosatron setup:

Dosatron Low Pressure Panel Packages | Car Wash Dispensing System

These modular systems offer pre-plumbed dispensers mounted on panels that are easily installed in a car wash chemical room!

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

I was asking for input on these but noone seemed to have a definitive yes or no opinion

 

[Martins]

What size tip do you have in the Hydrominder? You should be looking at the largest two or three tips for methanol soap and if it still freezes then take the tip out completely for 4:1. If it freezes after that (you will probably be below 15F) then it is just how it is. Put up a sign that states that they might freeze in really cold temps. Most people just hose-n-go when it is really cold. The Air Logic systems are nothing special and probably have lower quality components than you already have. We have a three bay FB Air Logic system and it seems a little cheap. The tank is crazy small and does not have a drain. Just replace your pump with a Flow-Jet, fix the leaks and tidy up the wiring and hoses.

I was running beige tip then black it got down to 24 last night and when i came in today they were all frozen but also again my pump went out again. So im sure lack of flow didnt help.

 

[Randy]

I was asking for input on these but noone seemed to have a definitive yes or no opinion

A few years ago a number of car wash operators here jumped on the Dosatron band wagon. There aren’t any left in service today because they were so problematic.

 

[Martins]

Marty, Yes you could hook up a MX- 8 and a air solenoid valve on the air supply side going to an air logic foam brush system. All you really need to do is replace the crap DEMA solenoids and clean up the system. You’re going use a ton of anti-freeze foam brush soap so why not use weep water when the temperature is only into the upper 20's at night and goes up to the low 40's during the day.

I want to hook my weep up to it But wasnt sure how to run it without losing product as well. I have a weep but only on the HP. And it weeps hot water. My fb uses cold water and the KR winter antifreeze. Not sure if i would have to re run anything.

(again still all new to this and none of this stuff has been well maintained)