anybody had any success reducing theft by accepting tokens only in their wash bays and vacs? we only dispense tokens, but most acceptors come factory programmed to take quarters. not even sure we can deny quarters in a slugbuster. really don't like taking this step, but hoping for some sort of deterent to crooks doing the damage to get just a few bucks in quarters. thanks for your opinions.
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accepting tokens only?
- Thread starter sticky
- Start date
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
sticky,
This is just my opinion but with the improvements in electronic cameras & speedy electronic notification of a violated sensor ... it seems like getting away from coins is not as critical as it has been in the past.
I know that some areas are hit much more often than where I live ... that is why I put it ... as just my opinion ... & not necessarily my actual observation.
mike
MEP001
Well-known member
You should read some of the old threads on this subject. One person went so far as to close the wash and remove the coin drawers at night and they STILL came through and broke into the meter doors. I've also heard/read stories where crooks first break into the equipment room and either steal the DVR or pour water into it. Look on YouTube and you'll find all sorts of idiots committing crimes right in front of cameras. Surveillance is hardly a 100% solution to break-ins.mjwalsh said:
Whale of a Wash
5 Washes 36Bays 2Vectors
Not sure which is a bigger problem for you the bays or the vacs but if it is possible to put in new coin boxes and a coin vac system that should help in the bays. It is not terribly difficult to install since you can usually run the pvc piping along the roof and down thru concrete block ... vacs would likely be more difficult .... I would probably look to have some custom re-enforcement done to slow them down and/or discourage them by making it take so long they look for something easier. That is about the only think I know that will work short of wiring an electroshock device LOL ... you can add alarms ... cameras can be a deterrent but most of the tme the crooks either don't care or are not bothered by them. I did catch one guy cutting hoses at my wash, got him on camera and it took me a year for it to go to court and win a judgement against him and then another 6 months before I started to get checks of $50 to $100 every so often as retribution. I actually never expected to receive anything so sometimes it does pay off.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
I still think that similar to Big Leo's approach of when a sensor is triggered "something like a loudspeaker or better" scares the crap out of the perpetrator(s). That & a split second notification unique sound on our 24/7 cell phones with immediate video ... to give a firm dispatch for hopefully law enforcement within a short enough distance away ... is "a makes sense" ticket!
mike
I have been tokens only in the bays since 2004. I wish I would have done it sooner. My customers can purchase tokens with quarters, bills or a credit card at the changers. I give a bonus token for a $5 purchase and my bays give bonus time when 5 tokens are inserted. I added credit cards to the bays 1-1/2 years ago. Zero vandalism since going to tokens plus increased revenue do to the marketing capabilities of tokens. I have to purchase 5000 tokens every two years do to "walk offs"...pure profit.
Been tokens only since 1997 on all my equipment. No vandalism or break-ins. Never a complaint from a customer.
Now up to 40,000 tokens out there somewhere from walk offs.
At first I used to think these are people that don't like my wash and don't want to come back, but most likely they are tokens stuck in an ash tray or the customer has moved away. This walk off number has been pretty consistent year to year. Same sort of thing like unredeemed gift cards. Just a natural thing.
I would never consider cash in the bays if I built a new location. I know there are differing opinions, but for my location tokens have worked out very well.
Now up to 40,000 tokens out there somewhere from walk offs.
At first I used to think these are people that don't like my wash and don't want to come back, but most likely they are tokens stuck in an ash tray or the customer has moved away. This walk off number has been pretty consistent year to year. Same sort of thing like unredeemed gift cards. Just a natural thing.
I would never consider cash in the bays if I built a new location. I know there are differing opinions, but for my location tokens have worked out very well.
Whale of a Wash
5 Washes 36Bays 2Vectors
I get the token use 200% as I've purchased nearly 50k of them
in 3yrs and almost out again. But every week customers bring
in their own quarters to the amount of almost 50 pounds a
week. My thought is ?-- what amount of $$ is not gotten
by you from the customer for not taking them. I think,
just as not having CC's in the bays, not allowing them to
use quarters is letting money slip away. The people have
excess change in their console they are trying to get rid of.
I would have to change to a vault or a vac-it up. If i stopped
today I know it would increase paper to the bank, and Zero quarters,
but what is the $$ amount i would be down every week.
Even if it was down 2 to 5%--that is real money.
In reverse if I said you could increase business 5% by
just turning on quarter acceptance you would say -thats a
no-Brainer. My main argument is not for quarters, it is really
about taking the most $$$ to the bank, i don't care how it's
done.
in 3yrs and almost out again. But every week customers bring
in their own quarters to the amount of almost 50 pounds a
week. My thought is ?-- what amount of $$ is not gotten
by you from the customer for not taking them. I think,
just as not having CC's in the bays, not allowing them to
use quarters is letting money slip away. The people have
excess change in their console they are trying to get rid of.
I would have to change to a vault or a vac-it up. If i stopped
today I know it would increase paper to the bank, and Zero quarters,
but what is the $$ amount i would be down every week.
Even if it was down 2 to 5%--that is real money.
In reverse if I said you could increase business 5% by
just turning on quarter acceptance you would say -thats a
no-Brainer. My main argument is not for quarters, it is really
about taking the most $$$ to the bank, i don't care how it's
done.
Whale, yes it is possible that some sales could be slipping away from non use of quarters, but its like print advertising, you just never know what your actual return is from the advertising or likewise loss of sales from not taking quarters.
I think customers become trained to any wash on how to operate the equipment, like going to ARCO for gas, they have all those special rules to pay by CC or cash etc. Once you figure it out, your OK.
I'm up in Canada, as you probably we know we have the $1 and $2 coin (best thing that ever happened), if I were to take quarters, I think the customers would just empty their pockets of their quarters before using the $1 or $2 coins. Likewise with bills, I use up my change before using my bills.
I have two change machines that take coin and bills for tokens. For a $5 bill for example, I dispense $4 in tokens and $1 dollar change. $10 bill, $6 in tokens, and $4 change. I also have a CC to token machine.
My start up is $2 for 4 minutes. I think in markets where prices are lower, taking quarters might make more sense to me. Also, if all your competitors take quarters - same thing. No real right or wrong answer. I am happy not taking quarters and dispensing tokens. But I could always use another 5% business, who wouldn't.
I think customers become trained to any wash on how to operate the equipment, like going to ARCO for gas, they have all those special rules to pay by CC or cash etc. Once you figure it out, your OK.
I'm up in Canada, as you probably we know we have the $1 and $2 coin (best thing that ever happened), if I were to take quarters, I think the customers would just empty their pockets of their quarters before using the $1 or $2 coins. Likewise with bills, I use up my change before using my bills.
I have two change machines that take coin and bills for tokens. For a $5 bill for example, I dispense $4 in tokens and $1 dollar change. $10 bill, $6 in tokens, and $4 change. I also have a CC to token machine.
My start up is $2 for 4 minutes. I think in markets where prices are lower, taking quarters might make more sense to me. Also, if all your competitors take quarters - same thing. No real right or wrong answer. I am happy not taking quarters and dispensing tokens. But I could always use another 5% business, who wouldn't.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
When there is no chance of even stealing tokens ... I would think the above specific case is more vandalism than theft. We have alarmed doors on both ends of our bays & lock up securely at 10 PM ... so that is another factor.
I do agree that tokens only like Ric referred to ... has a marketing & a potentially one step less for the customer advantage vs what I suggested for $5 dollar bills payout in an ATM like we have proven to be successful ... based on over a year's experience now. We have paper tokens for our bill acceptors that we still have not used. I happen to notice that the paper tokens are not as shiney, sparkly & durable as metal tokens. I wonder if people hate having the metal versions of the tokens around. I & others have been repeatedly told the clear majority of people "hate" having shiney & sparkly dollar coins & would much rather have the 3 times as heavy quarters
. What a "token only operator" may be missing out on is the frequent customer who is willing to part with a $5 bill in the bay that the customer tends to have on him or her anyway. Keep in mind at the proper current adjustment for inflation ... a $5 bill now is worth what a $1 bill was in 1973.
mike walsh king koin of bismarck
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
TurboJet, Whale, Ric & others,
Turbo, your post shows that even with an in bay "all tokens" operation it is worthwhile to have the $1 & $2 coins vs just quarters. Plus ... just think ... there was not rioting when the transition occurred! It makes sense to me!
Apparently, Mep needs me to provide a video of my customers using my specific dump gun & interviewing them showing their appreciation for the variable pressure!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_041oYDjg
mike walsh king koin of bismarck
MEP001
Well-known member
Did you miss the part where the original poster wants to have NO currency in his vaults to prevent break-ins?mjwalsh said:
A customer can vary the pressure with a weep gun in the same way without unnecessarily dumping your water and chemical on the ground and wasting it. I don't see how Tom Brokaw explaining Canada has any relevance to any of that.mjwalsh said:
I do think that quarter acceptance is a must do. My customers can insert 4 quarters in my changers and receive a token.That keeps the "cash" out of the coin boxes there by discouraging vandalism. I chose to do that rather than to accept the quarters in the bays. It has worked well for me. Yes I do get a fair amount of quarters in the changers.
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Sticky & others,
I was hoping we could keep the information relevant to the original question of going cashless (token only) specifically in the bays.
I was hoping I was clear enough that I was learning from the fact that Turbo found it made sense & at his facility it worked out by accepting $1,$2 coin, currency & credit card ... but no quarters .... all in one probably more secure against theft area ... than the bays themselves. I was very happy of the fact that he made it clear the availability of the Canadian $1 & $2 coin was & I quote "best thing that ever happened" even though the coins & currency are not used specifically in the more vulnerable bay meter box area. In appreciation, I thought that Tom Brokaw had put Canada in the light they should be put in with his presentation. As a lifelong USA citizen, I am not too proud to admit that we can learn from their first hand experiences in Canada on their journey through life!!!
I really do not understand why Mep(who I respect) brought up the unrelated dump gun issue. As long as he did ... let's set the record straight. My specific dump gun will only waste significant chemical & water with the letting up of the trigger ... is if the customer puts the gun in the holder with time left & fails to push the off button. This is a very rare occurrence as most customers want to get their money's worth. How Mep's shutoff style gun (weep or not) accomplishes the same variable pressure with similar water & soap quantity must be if there are some fancy controls that I prefer not to use in this particular case! If Mep & everyone else wants to use the shutoff style gun ... fine (their preference) ... but Mep really should not be describing the Cat Corp & KleenRite dump gun in a less than accurate way. We have had first hand experience with that specific gun since 1987 & are very familiar with its use in a self service bay with our Cat 310 pumps & 3 HP 3 phase motors.
mike walsh king koin of bismarck
I was hoping we could keep the information relevant to the original question of going cashless (token only) specifically in the bays.
I was hoping I was clear enough that I was learning from the fact that Turbo found it made sense & at his facility it worked out by accepting $1,$2 coin, currency & credit card ... but no quarters .... all in one probably more secure against theft area ... than the bays themselves. I was very happy of the fact that he made it clear the availability of the Canadian $1 & $2 coin was & I quote "best thing that ever happened" even though the coins & currency are not used specifically in the more vulnerable bay meter box area. In appreciation, I thought that Tom Brokaw had put Canada in the light they should be put in with his presentation. As a lifelong USA citizen, I am not too proud to admit that we can learn from their first hand experiences in Canada on their journey through life!!!
I really do not understand why Mep(who I respect) brought up the unrelated dump gun issue. As long as he did ... let's set the record straight. My specific dump gun will only waste significant chemical & water with the letting up of the trigger ... is if the customer puts the gun in the holder with time left & fails to push the off button. This is a very rare occurrence as most customers want to get their money's worth. How Mep's shutoff style gun (weep or not) accomplishes the same variable pressure with similar water & soap quantity must be if there are some fancy controls that I prefer not to use in this particular case! If Mep & everyone else wants to use the shutoff style gun ... fine (their preference) ... but Mep really should not be describing the Cat Corp & KleenRite dump gun in a less than accurate way. We have had first hand experience with that specific gun since 1987 & are very familiar with its use in a self service bay with our Cat 310 pumps & 3 HP 3 phase motors.
mike walsh king koin of bismarck
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mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
Relevant for the most part --- from our perspective
continued from last post
We also have the truck wash version of the gun where we route several pumps at once into one hose ... to act as a super fast wash down hose & gun during times where a lot of mud is brought in. We have been using a Radio Shack 3 channel remote control to turn the appropriate larger gun into a comic strip or cartoonish like "super dooper gun" off & on ... for almost 25 years now. About the same amount of time that Canada made the wise choice of eliminating their paper one dollar bill & mainstreaming their $1 coin & shortly thereafter mainstreaming their $2 coin.
mike
continued from last post
We also have the truck wash version of the gun where we route several pumps at once into one hose ... to act as a super fast wash down hose & gun during times where a lot of mud is brought in. We have been using a Radio Shack 3 channel remote control to turn the appropriate larger gun into a comic strip or cartoonish like "super dooper gun" off & on ... for almost 25 years now. About the same amount of time that Canada made the wise choice of eliminating their paper one dollar bill & mainstreaming their $1 coin & shortly thereafter mainstreaming their $2 coin.
mike
MEP001
Well-known member
As I said when I brought it up, your post made no sense:mjwalsh said:
How is the $5 payout from an ATM in any way relevant to the original poster's issue?mjwalsh said:
How is the comparative lack of shininess of your unused paper tokens compared to metal ones in any way relevant to the original poster's issue?
I also cringe at the thought of eliminating all currency acceptance in the bays, but 1) I can see where in some areas it could be necessary, and 2) I've known a number of people who vend and accept only tokens and have great success with it. If the original poster wants to eliminate quarters, why can't you voice your opinion against it just once and leave it at that? You've suggested your surveillance camera plan twice and argued three times for accepting alternative currency without ever once addressing the original poster's questions.
