bmattivi
Member
what type of touch free do you use
adding a third iba
- Thread starter bmattivi
- Start date
washnvac
Well-known member
It is a no brainer--friction with foam material. Friction is way better than touchfree. Place two cameras at entrance, two in the bay- (one high and one low), and one at the exit. That will elimate bogus claims. Any claims that you do have (and there will be a few) will be offset by the higher frequency in use, and by the higher price you can charge for the service.
frside1
New member
cwp 8000 is the karcher i have
washnvac
Well-known member
I have four Nu*Star machines ranging from 1 to 5 years old. My oldest machine is also my lowest volume. It has the orginal foam on it. It looks like I will replace a few rows on it this Summer. My busiest machine- I spend about $800 a year replacing. I only replace where it is needed; usually bottom and tops of side wraps. I have been replacing with Neoglide custom cut for my machine. It is about $9 per piece. It seems to be holding up better than the orginal product; plus it cleans great. There is really no formula for replacment; just replace as it wears.
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Waxman
Super Moderator
In your opinion. Touch free has a definite place in the car wash business. It appeals to many customers and is a viable business model for many operators. Many customers will opt for touch free over friction. Touch free machines can safely and effectively operate unattended and often enjoy zero damage claims.
washnvac
Well-known member
Sorry....in my opinion the new friction with foam is much better than touchfree. I do have a touchfree next to a new foam machine. The foam is currently winning 3 to 1. Regards.
Washnvac-
Did it take a while for your foam friction machine to catch on or was the 3 to 1 difference in sales immediate?
I'm tossing around the idea of adding an IBA. It would seem to me that a touch-free would go over much better even though it doesn't clean as well. Figured I would have to educate the customers on the new foam technology before seeing high volumes. Is this something you had to do? Are there a lot of touchfree washes in your immediate area that are causing your touchless sales to be lower?
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
Not just his opinion, but the public's opinion. Nothing wrong with touchless they just cost A LOT more to operate and when put side by side with a brush machine they almost always wash less cars than the brush wash. I have yet to hear of a side by side with the touchless washing more than the brush. We have many sites running unattended with both touchless and brush washes.
washnvac
Well-known member
This particular location I just bought in December. It already had a water wizard touchfree. I added the new foam machine at the end of December. So it has come 3 to 1 in a short time. There is another car wash in close proxmity with two D & S touchfrees. The wizard actually does a decent job. I also have three other washes in the general area, all with friction IBAs. I am the only friction guy around. Everyone else within a 35 miles radius is touchfree, except 2 tunnels about five miles from me. I can tell you, friction IBAs should have daily attention. I am hands on; by my washes most everyday, or by dial in. If your place is not attended to daily, you may want to do touchfree. I do agree with you that friction simply does a better job. Yes, there is a claim here and there, but they are minimal relative to the huge imcome potential. Ofcourse....just my opinion.
I'm new to the whole IBAs, so pardon the green-ness. What attention does the friction need on a daily basis that a touchfree does not?
How about cost comparison between the two types. Which one costs more to put in?
If you could choose and were adding two IBAs, would you go 1 friction and 1 touchless or two frictions?
washnvac
Well-known member
My particular machines have a series of hydraulic motors run by one large pump/motor combo. Each function is activated on a block by a coil. These coils occassionally fail. When a coil fails, the machine will continue to run, but that function will not work. A daily check would be to run a test wash to ensure everything is functioning as it should. Check the foam to be sure no debris has gotten wrapped up in it. (in my area, fishing line seems to be a common catch on the side brushes; oops a pun I think) The bay floor needs to be kept clean as there are floor proximity switches. An aluminum can on the floor can really mess things up. I know there are many machines that go unattended, I guess it is just my personal preference for daily morning walk through. If I was building a new wash I would go two side by side foam/friction with room for a third. I do not know cost of a new touchfree, but a decked out Nu*Star machine with top brush is about $150k installed, with doors and heater and auto cashier. You can run less chemical on the friction vs touchfree.
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I hate to spoil the party, but I had a pair of touch and touchless Automatics side by side for a year. Our touchless doubled the volume of the brush, soft gloss foam, and never caused a damage claim. I can't say that for the touch automatic. I now run two touchless Automatics side by side and would never consider another unattended touch automatic. In my area most customers prefer that their vehicle not be brushed by anything and would not enter a touch Automatic period. Some cars it cleaned well, others it skipped over parts, grabbed parts, and shadowed behind mirrors and square designs. Unattended it damaged a lot of stuff and made for unpleasant nights. We all have different pain tolerances and likes and dislikes. I also suspect that in different parts of the country each automatic is perceived differently. I'll take touchless all the way and I have very few mechanical problems, probably fewer than I had with the touch automatic. I doubt that I am the only operator with that experience.
washnvac
Well-known member
I do agree. I think a friction unit needs plenty of TLC. The reward in my case is great, though. I do not mean to trash touchfree, I just prefer friction. I don't wash my hands without rubbing them together. You just seem to get a better job with friction. A clean car is the goal.
Gator-
Is there a lot of touchless competition in your area?
As I'm reading more into this, I'm getting that touchless is the preferred automatic by the public but friction can be a bigger money maker due to it's scarcity in the community.
There are some in the area, but they do very little volume. I have seen locations around the country where they work and locations where they just sit. I personally don't think it is something to just gamble on. Get out all over your area and see what is working. The time will be well spent.
Why not try a hybrid, gives you both worlds. My Autec EV-1's offer both touchless and soft touch with foam or a combination wash. You can program up to 7 wash packages on this machine. Plus it really cleans cars.
washnvac
Well-known member
The problem with the hybrid ,frankly, is people are too stupid to read the signage and realize what they are getting. I had one once; and for me it was a disaster. People were mad because they wanted friction and did not select it; and others were mad because they got friction and did not want it. The idea seemed great, until I realized 90% of our customers do not read worth didly. And 5% are too lazy to read. The other 5% are generally OK. Just food for thought.
Does anyone have a figure on how many touchless automatics are too many in an area?
I've read that about 1500 people per touchless in an area in order to support one. Is this a good rule of thumb? I currently have 40-50 cars per day on average come though my self serve wash. Is it reasonable to assume a 25 car per day average through my automatic?
How about dryers in the automatic. Are these necessary? I'm not sure I have the lot space to make my automatic addition long enough to put dryers on the end and would instead have to install them very close to the washing equipment limiting the pace I could put cars through on a busy day.
Thanks for all your help guys. I can't imagine figuring these things out without this message board.
I've read that about 1500 people per touchless in an area in order to support one. Is this a good rule of thumb? I currently have 40-50 cars per day on average come though my self serve wash. Is it reasonable to assume a 25 car per day average through my automatic?
How about dryers in the automatic. Are these necessary? I'm not sure I have the lot space to make my automatic addition long enough to put dryers on the end and would instead have to install them very close to the washing equipment limiting the pace I could put cars through on a busy day.
Thanks for all your help guys. I can't imagine figuring these things out without this message board.
I am not a big fan of IBA hybrids. In addition to confusing customers I have yet to see one do a touch free wash that comes even close to a standard touch free system. Usually they do not use the proper chemicals or amount of chemicals because they share with the friction portion and do not get good coverage with the chemicals or high pressure. Most that I have seen end up with a 5 of 6 to 1 ratio of friction washes to touch free. Customers see the foam or cloth and assume it is a friction machine.
