Air Dryers In Self Service - How Are You Wiring Them?

[Car_Wash_Guy]

Went and bought a Super AirShamee II to install and try. I think I can tackle this myself but have a question

I've seen some people mention wiring it off the HP pump. Are you guys using the same relay as the HP pump or just jumping the incoming HP pump power to the relay to another relay that powers the dryer?

Thanks for the help!

 

[CarWashBoy]

Yes, we wire it off the HP pump. No Problems.

 

[MEP001]

You can't wire it off the same relay as the HP pump. You can wire it off the same breaker if you have to since they won't be on at the same time. What voltage does the Air Shammee you ordered require? If you have incoming 208 three-phase and all legs read 120V to ground, you can use a 3-pole relay to send power to each of three 120V motors. If you have a 240V single-phase dryers, you technically can run that off your 3-phase but off two legs that read 240V across, but you should have a secondary breaker or fuses. A 3-phase breaker won't trip properly if something bad happens.

 

[MEP001]

Yes, we wire it off the HP pump. No Problems.

This is bad advice without knowing more about the voltage and dryers.

 

[Kimberly Berg]

When we installed Super AirShammees 5 years ago, Diskin told us to piggy-back off the HP pumps, but their own Installation Manual clearly says in LARGE, RED BOLD PRINT to use an experienced electrician, and to install based on local and national building codes. Here in California, I contacted 5 different commercial electricians and they would NOT piggy-back. They were concerned that if there was a short, it could fry both my pump and the dryer motors. In the end, we had the electrician install a separate sub-electrical panel, and added an hour meter so we could track the usage. Yeah, it cost me an extra $4k, but it gives me peace of mind knowing I'm up to code.

 

[MEP001]

their own Installation Manual clearly says in LARGE, RED BOLD PRINT to use an experienced electrician

This is mostly Diskin covering their ass, but it's also good advice. FWIW, I argued with city code inspectors over the installation of an automatic and dryers, and they said it would require pulling a heavier electric main, a new panel, AND a second panel. I told them the pump and the dryers would never run at the same time (True because the bay was too short for one car to be in the dryer and another enter the bay). It saved the owner what would be about $60,000 in today's money.

 

[rshiggaon]

This is interesting, I never thought we can wire it off the same breaker as my pump is. As @Kimberly Berg mentioned I was also planning to put another panel that is going to cost me $4k. I want to go with 3 phase panel if I have to put in a new one, but having a single-phase blower for 5 bays would take most of the slots on the new panel. My electrician suggested going with 3-phase motors will be more bang for money on 3-phase panel.

1. Is it worth going with 3-phase motors vs 1-phase motors?
2. I thought the Super AirShamee II comes in 3 phase only and with one motor, right?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Earl Weiss]

.................. They were concerned that if there was a short, it could fry both my pump and the dryer motors. I

Some years ago in a tunnel install they used a heavier breaker with multiple Blower motors. To avoid one short affecting all, in the line that fed each Blower was a fused disconnect panel. So, if one blower stopped working we had to check the fuses as part of the trouble shooting. Kind of like some who put an in line fuse to each motor on a vacuum. I wonder if this would be a simpler and less expensive solution to this issue.

 

[OurTown]

1. I thought the Super AirShamee II comes in 3 phase only and with one motor, right?

Yes

 

[OurTown]

This is interesting, I never thought we can wire it off the same breaker as my pump is. As @Kimberly Berg mentioned I was also planning to put another panel that is going to cost me $4k. I want to go with 3 phase panel if I have to put in a new one, but having a single-phase blower for 5 bays would take most of the slots on the new panel. My electrician suggested going with 3-phase motors will be more bang for money on 3-phase panel.

1. Is it worth going with 3-phase motors vs 1-phase motors?

Three phase motors cost less to run. Do you have three phase available?

 

[rshiggaon]

Three phase motors cost less to run. Do you have three phase available?

Yes, I do. I don't have enough slots to put separate CB for blowers. I am thinking of using a new sub-panel or use the motors breakers (that I learned now).

 

[Mchas]

If you have 3 phase service, DEFINITELY go with the 3 phase version of the motors. I have both versions at different locations and the 3 phase ones have been flawless for 5+ years but the single phase ones are crap (I am always having to climb on the roof to replace motor brushes or motors when they burn up).

Wire to the same circuit breaker as your bay motors. The two will never be used at the same time so it works just fine.

 

[MEP001]

(I am always having to climb on the roof to replace motor brushes or motors when they burn up).

Consider replacing motors with something that holds up better, and change the brushes on a schedule. I replaced my vac motors with Domel and replaced all the brushes every two years. It takes me an hour to do six 2-motor vacuums, and I haven't had a motor fail in over four years. It beats having a vac go down at least once a month from a bad motor.

 

[Mchas]

Consider replacing motors with something that holds up better, and change the brushes on a schedule. I replaced my vac motors with Domel and replaced all the brushes every two years. It takes me an hour to do six 2-motor vacuums, and I haven't had a motor fail in over four years. It beats having a vac go down at least once a month from a bad motor.

I do change brushes on a schedule (for both vacuum and air shamee motors), but these darn air shamee motors still fail randomly. I have no issues with my regular vacuum motors but for some reason the air shamee ones are poor quality. Got any good alternatives that will fit in the existing air shamee mounts?

These are the ones I am using now:

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-31171-kleen-rite-6600-005t-mp-21-vac-motor-for-air-shammee-220v.aspx

Would need something 220v with that output port on the side and same size and shape as that one.

 

[MEP001]

https://windtrax.com/storefrontCommerce/subcategorybrowse.do;jsessionid=36F8E93B297EA0AD63B29211DFEA06E2?subcategory-name=Motors&path=Windtrax+Catalog%2f%2f%2f%2fUserSearch1%3ddomel

They may have a 220v version.

The motor you posted is the same brand as the basic motor Kleen-Rite sells. They're junk, which is why they fail randomly. I have never had a Domel motor fail.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

https://windtrax.com/storefrontCommerce/subcategorybrowse.do;jsessionid=36F8E93B297EA0AD63B29211DFEA06E2?subcategory-name=Motors&path=Windtrax+Catalog%2f%2f%2f%2fUserSearch1%3ddomel

They may have a 220v version.

The motor you posted is the same brand as the basic motor Kleen-Rite sells. They're junk, which is why they fail randomly. I have never had a Domel motor fail.

Mep i need to order one right now for one of my air shammes i have the same motor as mentioned above the kleen rite 6600s 230V single phase. I just went to Windtrax website is this the motor to order. thank you

DOMEL 491.8​
2 STG TD BP BB 220V VAC MTR​
Manufacturer Item:	491.3.714-4​
​
Sell Price:	$113.23​	EA​
Quantity Available:	In Stock​
​

 

[MEP001]

I don't know. You'd have to call them to get the specs.

 

[tdlconceptsllc]

Update I called the Ohio windtrax talked to Tech support he wanted to argue with me that there is no such thing as a 230v single phase shammees so I called Kansas guy was super nice and helpful and went and pulled a Domel 220v motor but it will not work because of the tabs are not identical and has a cone shaped bottom that will not sit flat when mounted so back to the kleenrite ones which is disappointing. Here is attachments of the domel 220v style

 

[Mchas]

You sure it won’t work? The cone at the bottom shouldn’t be a big problem because there is a foam gasket under the rim. And the holes look pretty close to me?

Here is a picture of the Domel measurements along with a picture of the kleen rite motor. Key question is are the holes in the same place?

If we can make this work it would be a huge improvement!