Are bright bay lights for business, or for security?

[Sequoia]

One of my first changes at my wash was to brighten up the bay lighting at night. There had been previous security issues due to neglect and poor lighting did not help that. Plus I thought it would promote night time business.

6 years later, security is better, but the wash is no longer neglected and there are also many visible cameras as well.

What has not happened is an increase in nighttime business. I get very, very few people who wash at night-- maybe 1 customer or possibly 2 is a good night. So I am wondering about reducing bay lighting to save $$$. And to keep people out who come in to work on their car or ... whatever.

I can put in low draw LED fixtures for adequate bay lighting, and have my higher power lights kick on when a timer starts. I'm set up to easily do this. Is anyone else using lights which activate with the timer, and are their pros or cons to just continuing to burn bright lights all night just to maintain higher security?

I currently burn two 96w compact fluorescents per bay for ~600watts total times maybe 10 hrs/day on average. I could cut this down to 180watts total (56w per bay.) Considering energy, bulbs, and ballasts I believe a switch to LED would have payback in about 18 months or so.

 

[under pressure]

I think bright bay lights are for security, and having bright bays invites night time washing so its a win win

 

[MEP001]

Is anyone else using lights which activate with the timer, and are their pros or cons to just continuing to burn bright lights all night just to maintain higher security?

I have a plan to replace the two 320W lights per bay with four 128W lights per bay and have only two (Maybe even just one) burn all night with the rest switched on with the bay. We have plenty of business to justify keeping the bays well lit at least 'til 10:00 PM, but after midnight it's unusual to see more than two people wash before the following sunrise.

As far as light being a security measure, I really think a good camera and alarm system works better. It wouldn't be difficult to use cameras as motion sensors tied together with bay use, and one without the other used to notify of a potential problem.

I wouldn't go with LED. There are plenty of fluorescent fixtures that give more light per watt and cost a fraction of LED fixtures or retrofits. LEDS are getting better, but right now unless you can get the city to pay for almost all the upgrade it will never pan out in energy savings and eventual replacement cost.

 

[Greg Pack]

I'm in the same boat. I'm in a upper income bedroom community. Not too many night owls in my neighborhood. Even the McDonalds two doors down closes at 10pm on weeknights, 11 on weekends. The few customers that are around are not the most desirable ones. Often in the Summer it's redneck kids that went mud-riding and have to wash that crap off before going home. I'm happy for them to take their business to the next guy. I've got adequate area lighting that will stay on for security purposes. My power company is raising rates and I'm sure will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, so I'm considering goint to a more energy effiicient light, and cutting them off about 11pm

I've got standard 400 W ceiling MH fixtures. The ballast has gone out in several of them. I thought now is a time to try a retrofit to fluorescent to see if I like them. Anyone know of a retrofit kit worth looking at? Thanks.......

Also, this may sound crazy, but don't they have sprinkler controls that prevent the sprinkler from running during or shortly after a rainstorm? I thought that might be interesting to try to modify one for lighting purposes, preventing the lights from running during the rain.

 

[MEP001]

I've got standard 400 W ceiling MH fixtures. The ballast has gone out in several of them. I thought now is a time to try a retrofit to fluorescent to see if I like them. Anyone know of a retrofit kit worth looking at? Thanks.......

Those inductive fluorescent adaptor kits look promising. Standard 400W metal halide have an efficacy of around 80 lumens per watt. The inductives are twice that - you could cut your electric usage in half and have as much light.

Also, this may sound crazy, but don't they have sprinkler controls that prevent the sprinkler from running during or shortly after a rainstorm? I thought that might be interesting to try to modify one for lighting purposes, preventing the lights from running during the rain.

There is such a thing - don't know how it works but I'm sure it either switches voltage or just opens and closes a circuit, so it should be usable along with a PLC or delay relay to switch anything. I think I'd rather have them on a timer and switched on by a bay in use.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

Are bright lights for business, or for security? In my market, based on my observations of my customers behaviors: For the first hour after dark they are for business. After that they are for security. Therefore, half of my bay lights are on a timer which shuts them off at 11 PM.

 

[mjc3333]

I agree with Paul. On a busy winter evening when it is well above freezing, I get "some" business about an hour after it gets dark. Same thing in the morning in the summer, I may get some business about an hour before sunrise.

I have cameras in all of my bays and view them daily. I am lucky if I get 4 or 5 people washing from let say 10:00 pm to 5:00 am.

Lights for me are for security much more than actual business.

 

[Mel(NC)]

I am also set up similar to Paul. My street sign and half of the bay lights go off at 11:00 and back on at 6:00. I had a breakin the first year that I owned the wash. I installed an alarm system after that and have not had another break-in in 5 years. At the same time I installed a big sign on the mechanical room door that reads "WARNING - monitored alarm system in use" which I am sure is the reason I have not had any more problems. Well, almost no more problems. I did have half the lights off at my vac islands at 11:00 until I had some vandalism to one unit. I now leave all the vac lights on.

 

[Sponge Bob]

I got tired of replacing the expensive 400 watt metal halide bulbs in my wall pack fixtures. So I took the advice of a good electrician and converted to 55 watt full spectrum compact flouresent bulbs. They are not so compact but they work well in a wall pack. The full spectrum is the key because they were designed for the photography industry and they give off a bright white light. They are much brighter and whiter than any soduim or halide and last much much much longer. I run the entire complex triggered by a photoeye, so all the lights are on dusk to dawn and most gloomy days. The lights help with security but they also help market the place. You see and remember a clean well light business as you motor by, even if you're not in the mood for a late night bath. You can find the bulbs at your local electrical supply house or on the web. Look for Longstar full spectrum 55 watt. My conversion required a simple wiring alteration to convert from 220 to 110, a bypass of the transformer and a large to meduim base screw in adapter. I have not replaced a bay bulb since I converted 2 years ago.

 

[MEP001]

The full spectrum is the key because they were designed for the photography industry and they give off a bright white light.

I get the coated metal halides for the same reason. There's more to it than the light being bright white - it also renders color better and even though they're rated for fewer lumens it looks like more light simply because you can see better.

 

[Sequoia]

Cost

I'm not sure how to quantify the cost of new LED fixtures compared to the older technologies. But I do know that its a lot more than just energy cost.

After 6 years of usage, I'm starting to replace more bulbs and ballasts in my compact fluorescents in the bays. In the early days, I rarely did either.

I just replaced my parking lot perimeter lights-- taking out 175w pole mounted metal halides and putting in 56w LED's. From viewing my cameras, the LED's actually appear to more brightly light the parking lot-- at 1/3 the energy and with no ballasts and bulbs to burn out. But, I haven't seen them in person yet at night, so I'll reserve final judgement until I see that.

 

[washnvac]

Oops, next post.

 

[washnvac]

I agree with Sponge Bob. I have been converting 175 watt and 250 watt metal halides to 105 watt cfls with a mogul base. So far I have change 14 fixtures. I have had 3 bulbs fail, but warranty covered them (warranty is 15 months). The incandescent equiv. is 420watts. The light is good, and is equal to or better than the halides. It is an easy change, just disconnect the capacitor and ballast, run the mogul base feeds straight to the 120v feeds. Bulbs are long though-- 12 inches. Some wall packs will not accomodate. I also put these in four 400 watt mh over vac stations at 15 foot height. Light is not as intense, but at a $550 yearly savings on 4 lamps, I'll keep them. www.1000bulbs.com carries all sorts of cfls.

 

[MEP001]

From viewing my cameras, the LED's actually appear to more brightly light the parking lot

That may be because LEDs also produce a lot of infrared light which you can't see with the naked eye, but cameras pick up very easily.

Life expectancy was the main reason I first started looking into LEDs as replacements for metal halides. The Scottsdales in the bays now are supposed to last 15,000 hours, but after about 5,000 hours they're down to about half the light output they were when they were new. A new bulb alone (at $30) wouldn't bring it back to full brightness, and within a couple months it was way down on light again. Replacing the bulb and capacitor at the same time fixed it for another 18 months, but that's $800 a year just in replacement parts.

The LED fixtures I looked at were retrofits for the Scottsdales, almost $600 each. They're supposed to last 60,000 hours. I factored in everything except my time spent replacing bulbs and capacitors, and it just didn't make sense. The LEDs can't be serviced (at least not yet), so the whole kit needs to be changed at end-of-life. That almost completely wipes out all the savings.

The T5 fluorescents are cheap to install, are as bright per watt as metal halides, the bulbs last as much as 36,000 hours, they retain 95% of their light output throughout their life, and a 4-bulb fixture can be relamped for less than $20.

 

[2Biz]

I'm not sure how to quantify the cost of new LED fixtures compared to the older technologies. But I do know that its a lot more than just energy cost.

After 6 years of usage, I'm starting to replace more bulbs and ballasts in my compact fluorescents in the bays. In the early days, I rarely did either.

I just replaced my parking lot perimeter lights-- taking out 175w pole mounted metal halides and putting in 56w LED's. From viewing my cameras, the LED's actually appear to more brightly light the parking lot-- at 1/3 the energy and with no ballasts and bulbs to burn out. But, I haven't seen them in person yet at night, so I'll reserve final judgement until I see that.

Sequoia,

Do you have a link to those 56W LED bulbs? I'm getting ready to retrofit all the lights at my wash, and want to get all the information I can before choosing CFL's or LED's....I have (12) 175w Mercury Vapors running that I could really save a lot of money on....

 

[Sequoia]

Links

Here are the fixtures I am using:

http://www.e-conolight.com/led-products/led-roundback-floodlight/e-hl2f06c2z.html

You might consider purchasing one or two and trying them out. I bought one, was satisfied with it, and wound up ordering enough to replace all my pole mount MH fixtures.

 

[pitzerwm]

One thing that I did was to put a 500watt halogen right above the vending and changer, with a motion sensor, so that when they walked up, there would be instant more light which also helped the cameras see better.

 

[2Biz]

I don't have a direct light over my changer, but is on the list to do. Also thought of the motion censor. Might just scare a thug away if he's up to no good when it turns on!

 

[pitzerwm]

2Biz, cheap insurance.