I was recently talking to manufacture of my IBA and he told me that most new IBA do not use hot water anymore as the cost has just got so exspensive? I was thinking of dumping my boiler and putting a couple of instants on bays any ideas on the previous statement or am I being misinformed?
Automatic hot water?
- Thread starter cap732000
- Start date
robert roman
Bob Roman
“….most new IBA do not use hot water anymore as the cost has just got so exspensive?”
True.
Increasing temperature will increase reactivity of agents in solution. However, at some point, diminishing marginal returns is reached.
Here, as amount/cost of energy increases, marginal product of an additional unit of energy will at some point be less than marginal product of previous unit of energy
Another reason cold water chemistry isn’t prevalent is because it involves selling less equipment not more of it.
True.
Increasing temperature will increase reactivity of agents in solution. However, at some point, diminishing marginal returns is reached.
Here, as amount/cost of energy increases, marginal product of an additional unit of energy will at some point be less than marginal product of previous unit of energy
Another reason cold water chemistry isn’t prevalent is because it involves selling less equipment not more of it.
If you use only cold water in the wash you will have to increase the amount of chemical you use. It would have a greater effect on touchless washes but I am not sure the possible savings in using cold water would not be taken away by increased chemical costs in either system. Robert is right. There is no real cold water chemistry out their but I doubt it is due to affecting equipment sales. I was once involved in a project to develop cold water wash chemicals. It became obvious early on that it would probably become cost prohibitive to develop cold water products. We scrapped the project very early on. It is very difficult and costly to remove carbon and solvent based soils without using some heat.
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
Dilution Ratio
Temperature
Water hardness
Time
Friction
My “old school” experience tells me that elimination of one component of the equation requires increasing all the remaining components.
For example: Blending chemicals with hard water requires twice the dilution ratio while applying heat reduces dilution ratios.
But, what happens when that hot solution is tempered with cold water rinsing? Won’t those “melted” oily soils congeal and redeposit?
If yes, then wouldn’t an increase in dilution ratio or doubling of the application volume be required to achieve the desired results?
I recall several encounters with operators who were saving “vast quantities” by modifying the equation. Unfortunately, they were simultaneously suffering from loss of revenues due to reduction of quality.
It's very difficult to convince dissatisfied customers to return for another serving of poor quality. Eventually, one runs out of 1st time customers.
Let the Death Spiral begin.
Temperature
Water hardness
Time
Friction
My “old school” experience tells me that elimination of one component of the equation requires increasing all the remaining components.
For example: Blending chemicals with hard water requires twice the dilution ratio while applying heat reduces dilution ratios.
But, what happens when that hot solution is tempered with cold water rinsing? Won’t those “melted” oily soils congeal and redeposit?
If yes, then wouldn’t an increase in dilution ratio or doubling of the application volume be required to achieve the desired results?
I recall several encounters with operators who were saving “vast quantities” by modifying the equation. Unfortunately, they were simultaneously suffering from loss of revenues due to reduction of quality.
It's very difficult to convince dissatisfied customers to return for another serving of poor quality. Eventually, one runs out of 1st time customers.
Let the Death Spiral begin.
Waxman
Super Moderator
Hot water cleans the car better than cold and it's what the customer wants, esp. in Self Serve where they can feel it.
I want to price my wash high so I can make money at this job. I'd rather tinker with price point than use cold water. I lowered my cost per car in the chemicals used ( I mix my own powder and love it), so I leave the water hot and still save big overall compared to when I used a liquid presoak in my touch free automatic.
I used to wash cars by hand with cold water (for about 11 years). It was awful compared to using hot with high pressure. Why ever go back????????
I want to price my wash high so I can make money at this job. I'd rather tinker with price point than use cold water. I lowered my cost per car in the chemicals used ( I mix my own powder and love it), so I leave the water hot and still save big overall compared to when I used a liquid presoak in my touch free automatic.
I used to wash cars by hand with cold water (for about 11 years). It was awful compared to using hot with high pressure. Why ever go back????????
robert roman
Bob Roman
“Blending chemicals with hard water requires twice the dilution ratio while applying heat reduces dilution ratios.”
True but friction process overcomes this.
For example, 140’ touch-less conveyor can manage about 100 cars per hour but uses twice the chemistry and three times the water and energy of a 100’ friction conveyor that can produce 125 cars per hour.
Same applies to in-bay process.
This why most all touch-less makers offer friction.
Some areas of country, water costs are rising, electricity is still cheap (i.e. WV). Other areas, energy is expensive and water is not even with drought (i.e. CA).
True but friction process overcomes this.
For example, 140’ touch-less conveyor can manage about 100 cars per hour but uses twice the chemistry and three times the water and energy of a 100’ friction conveyor that can produce 125 cars per hour.
Same applies to in-bay process.
This why most all touch-less makers offer friction.
Some areas of country, water costs are rising, electricity is still cheap (i.e. WV). Other areas, energy is expensive and water is not even with drought (i.e. CA).
