wash4me
Member
What was wrong?
L
loewem
Guest
Still having the same problem. Since last Friday I've tried the following:
plugged motor into receptable for the next stand/bay
replaced 3 phase plug and cable/wiring to contactor
bypassed the toggle switch that is between the 24 volt transformer and the contactor
Tried a new transformer
replaced the contactor and relay overload with contactor and overload from the next stand/bay
Moved pump outlet hose from next stand/bay to pump outlet for problem pump/motor...
UPS delivered a new pump this evening. I'll try that tomorrow morning along with a new hose.
I bought an amp meter this evening and got the following readings:
Problem motor only pumping water...no gun/wand - each leg coming in and going out was 7.2 - 7.4
Problem motor with gun and 1508 nozzle at 1400 PSI - each leg coming in and going out 12.2 -12.5
Next stand/bay motor with gun and 2505 nozzle at 1200 PSI - each leg coming in and going out was 10.3 -10.6
Very frustrating, but on the upside I haven't zapped myself.....yet. Specs for the motor in the picture View attachment 988
Hi loewem, Keep in touch regarding the pulley sizes. This will help calculate pump flow and advise max psi without overlading the 3hp motor/electrical components.
Application note;
A #8 nozzle needs nearly 4.8 gpm to obtain 1400 psi.
Approx. 4-1/2 hp is necessary to drive pump delivering 4.8 gpm when spraying 1400 psi.
Happy Sunday - Happy to help !
Greg Thoennes
Arimitsu Pumps
Application note;
A #8 nozzle needs nearly 4.8 gpm to obtain 1400 psi.
Approx. 4-1/2 hp is necessary to drive pump delivering 4.8 gpm when spraying 1400 psi.
Happy Sunday - Happy to help !
Greg Thoennes
Arimitsu Pumps
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L
loewem
Guest
I finally figured out the problem that I was having. Started out as an electrical problem with the transformer and the motor contactor/relay. I created the amperage overload problem by feeding the pump directly with city water. Previously the only water going to the pump was gravity fed from the rinse tank. The city water pressue was overloading the pump and the motor. As I like to tell my wife, "I can fix anything, I just need to break it first".
I'm still confused about how this happens, but I talked to CAT technical support and they said that it is possible. My pump stands are about 20 years old and were made by Magic Wand. There is gravity feed from the rinse tank for rinse, soap and wax. There is also a fitting/connection for city water that runs to/through the rinse solenoid. In trying to figure out this problem I realized that the rinse solenoid is not wired to anything in the pump stand electrical box. This is true for every pump. The wires from the rinse solenoid are terminated with a wire nut. Any thought to why this might have been done?
I'm still confused about how this happens, but I talked to CAT technical support and they said that it is possible. My pump stands are about 20 years old and were made by Magic Wand. There is gravity feed from the rinse tank for rinse, soap and wax. There is also a fitting/connection for city water that runs to/through the rinse solenoid. In trying to figure out this problem I realized that the rinse solenoid is not wired to anything in the pump stand electrical box. This is true for every pump. The wires from the rinse solenoid are terminated with a wire nut. Any thought to why this might have been done?
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
loewen,
I & possibly others just learned something new. Not only do we have to be concerned about overloading with the pulley size nozzle relationship but also the inlet water pressure.
We have the exact same motors with Cat 310s & I have been tempted to rule out an air suction leak by putting on city water pressure directly ... but hesitated when Randy Nix explained something about the need for a regulator with his setup. I believe if the water pressure was even higher & if the motor was 5 HP ... no breaker issue ... the inlet seals could be damaged which is not to be taken too lightly either.
Did the Cat Tech person or Greg say at what pressure the city water can cause an overloading problem??? We have very visible pressure gauges so I could observe them to see if we would be safe from the circuit breaker trip or potential inlet seal damage.
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
I & possibly others just learned something new. Not only do we have to be concerned about overloading with the pulley size nozzle relationship but also the inlet water pressure.
We have the exact same motors with Cat 310s & I have been tempted to rule out an air suction leak by putting on city water pressure directly ... but hesitated when Randy Nix explained something about the need for a regulator with his setup. I believe if the water pressure was even higher & if the motor was 5 HP ... no breaker issue ... the inlet seals could be damaged which is not to be taken too lightly either.
Did the Cat Tech person or Greg say at what pressure the city water can cause an overloading problem??? We have very visible pressure gauges so I could observe them to see if we would be safe from the circuit breaker trip or potential inlet seal damage.
mike walsh www.kingkoin.com
L
loewem
Guest
Cat tech support didn't say at what pressure a problem would occur. I explained the situation to him and he asked if I had changed anything in regards to the pump. At first I said no, but then I remembered that when I switched to a different pump I connected the city water. He suggested that might be the problem, but didn't give an explanation that I understood. I set it up to use only gravity feed and it is working fine now.
Thanks everyone for the help and patience.
Fatboy769
Living the American Dream
I can assure you that your pump stands didn't come wired like that from Magic Wand. Originally they were set up for cold water rinse (city water pressure going through the 1/2" Asco solenoid) and hot water (gravity fed from the holding tank) for soap and wax. My guess would be the previous owner (Ken) decided to quit using hot water, therefore he could pull out of the holding tank for rinse, soap and wax. This set up wouldn't require the need for the 1/2" solenoid.
Another possible reason.....The PO could have been tired of overflowing gravity feed tanks caused by faulty CV's. There are inline CV's that are supposed to keep city pressure water from back-feeding into the tanks.. It was a lot easier to disconnect the 1/2" solenoid and pull rinse water from the gravity feed tanks than constantly having over flowing tanks....What do you think?!? Another good possibility?
Fatboy769
Living the American Dream
2Biz, that's a possibility, however Magic Wand plumbed the water weep into the intake side of the pump, which would still require the CV/footvalve. Granted you wouldn't have to deal with them till cold weather, but you would still have to deal with them.
...Just trying to help Loewem understand how many possibilities there are when it comes to Pump Stand Plumbing!
L
loewem
Guest
More things are starting to make sense to me. I always known that there is value in screwing things up, I just need to look for it. I've become good friends with the previous owner (Ken) and he has filled me in on many things that were done at the wash. He told me that someone set him up for hot water rinse. I guess I understand how they did that now. Just take the city water out of the equation and use hot water in the rinse tank. Right now I've got hot water rinse and by extension hot water soap and wax.
This is all helpful since I recently went through my self serve side with a plumber and documented a few things that I want him to fix. An issue related to my rinse tank is that on busy days I'll sometimes have trouble keeping up with water demand. My solution has been to use a hydrominder as a secondary fill option for the rinse tank. Now I understand that the system wasn't designed to work with rinse via gravity flow, so I'll probably go back to the original operation. The on demand hot water heater can't keep up with the demand on those busy days and it is a pain as it can screw up the soap tank for my automatic which draws hot water. Hoping that automatic customers don't notice that they didn't get any pre-soak, triple foam or wax probably isn't a good business strategy. Another issue is that I've got hot water feeding a couple of my hydrominders. Soap and Wax....kind of a waste since mixing this with the hot water rinse tank on the way out. I split as many cold water feeds as I could get cold water to my hydrominders and left it at that. Previously had foam brush and pre soak filling with hot water. Doesn't seem like a good way to heat the chemical.
Thanks for all of the help and thoughts.
This is all helpful since I recently went through my self serve side with a plumber and documented a few things that I want him to fix. An issue related to my rinse tank is that on busy days I'll sometimes have trouble keeping up with water demand. My solution has been to use a hydrominder as a secondary fill option for the rinse tank. Now I understand that the system wasn't designed to work with rinse via gravity flow, so I'll probably go back to the original operation. The on demand hot water heater can't keep up with the demand on those busy days and it is a pain as it can screw up the soap tank for my automatic which draws hot water. Hoping that automatic customers don't notice that they didn't get any pre-soak, triple foam or wax probably isn't a good business strategy. Another issue is that I've got hot water feeding a couple of my hydrominders. Soap and Wax....kind of a waste since mixing this with the hot water rinse tank on the way out. I split as many cold water feeds as I could get cold water to my hydrominders and left it at that. Previously had foam brush and pre soak filling with hot water. Doesn't seem like a good way to heat the chemical.
Thanks for all of the help and thoughts.
