Belanger Saber two arm

[Deanwash]

I along with another wash with a 7 year old saber have been experiencing an issue with a saber where the “please wait “ light stays on after the car leaves the bay. I have replaced the gearbox, exit photo eyes and the sonar is working fine. The exit prox switch goes to the flag at the end of the wash and then drifts about a half inch off the flag which seems to cause the problem. Belanger doesn’t seem to have an answer. Has anyone seen this problem before?

 

[JGinther]

Yes. Every single one does it. Can't believe they don't have an answer. The aluminum shaft that goes through the gearbox is wore down. Don't have an answer for why they used aluminum there.

 

[Deanwash]

I just put a new shaft in when I put the new gearbox In a week ago. The problem persisted 5 times out of 170 washes with a brand new shaft and gearbox. The other wash where it’s happening also has a new gearbox.

 

[JGinther]

Watch as you push the machine back and forth. Typically, the aluminum wears to where the key has movement on the shaft. There should be no play at all. It can also be elsewhere in the drive system - shaft couplings or wheels, but not typical. The other machine had the shaft replaced also? Was the shaft worn out?

 

[Deanwash]

Watch as you push the machine back and forth. Typically, the aluminum wears to where the key has movement on the shaft. There should be no play at all. It can also be elsewhere in the drive system - shaft couplings or wheels, but not typical. The other machine had the shaft replaced also? Was the shaft worn out?

We replaced the gearbox, new shaft two new couplings and keys . Shaft was stainless. Old gearbox was shot. We could push machine around. New one can’t be pushed. However problem persists.

 

[JGinther]

The shaft that goes through the gearbox was stainless? Maybe you are talking about the long shaft. I'm talking about the one that goes through the gearbox. Don't think that problem would persist with no slop. That problem means the machine was at home, then moved off of home on it's own. Which means there is slop somewhere.

 

[DakotaHoskins]

We have the first Saber installed back in 2010. They did a PLC update to fix the issue in some of the later builds. We battled it for nearly three years after opening.

 

[DakotaHoskins]

https://www.autocareforum.com/showt...-Not-Returning-quot-Home-quot&highlight=saber

 

[Deanwash]

https://www.autocareforum.com/showt...-Not-Returning-quot-Home-quot&highlight=saber

Dakotahoskins: I saw your post. My site and another is having the issue that you had. We are having a hard time getting it resolved with Belanger. Can you call me at4124273811? I’d like to talk about that plc software upgrade to see how it resolved it. I mentioned it to Belanger and they said if I send in the plc, I’d be down for 2 weeks. Not an option.

 

[JGinther]

If the machine is making it to the end prox flag to complete the wash, then drifting off, you have a mechanical issue. The PLC is not the cause. A software update might be able to make the machine move back to the limit again to circumvent the issue, but the real issue is finding out why the machine moves back off the limit. Never heard the answer to the shaft question above... The shaft that went through the gearbox was stainless and not aluminum? I only know of aluminum shafts on that machine...

 

[Deanwash]

I changed the entry sonar adder from 3 to 9 and so far the issue has not occurred in about 80 washes. I’m not that confident that it’s going to be a fix. I was told that the 2.12 plc software upgrade was the fix to the problem .

 

[JGinther]

It won't be if the machine isn't on the home prox. Has to be on the home prox to start a wash. If the machine is home, you have a sonar issue. Your previous post said the sonars were working fine and the machine was off the home prox. The only option in that case is a mechanical one.

 

[DakotaHoskins]

Update:

Me along with other Saber owners have battled a “red light” issue for nearly five years. Belanger made a PLC patch to the issue but it would still take 1-2 minutes to reset when it happened. If there is a line, a lot can happen in that amount of time. Our machine was resetting from this fault 10-15 times a day. I have finally found a long term solution. I added a relay to the car exit prox and tied it into one of the exit operation outputs. Now when the car clears the exit VPS the car exit arch output is tuned on for 3 seconds powering the relay. Causing the relay to connect 338 and exit prox input. This is long enough to load the next wash if the carriage rolled back a quarter on an inch off home. We now no longer have cars waiting constantly for the machine to rehome itself. This should be added to belangers software. I attached a pic of the settings we used to accomplish this.

 

[Flex- Wand]

I have lost confidence in Bellinger to with their support my advice is to keep an eye on the welds on the arms if you have the older machine they break I've had three break

 

[Waxman]

Whenever I had issues with proxes missing targets on my old Superior Side Trac I simply enlarged the target. Pretty simple to do. Why not try that?

If it drifts off 1/2", just extend the target in that direction by 1/2".

 

[Waxman]

I have lost confidence in Bellinger to with their support my advice is to keep an eye on the welds on the arms if you have the older machine they break I've had three break

WOW that's ugly!

 

[DakotaHoskins]

I have lost confidence in Bellinger to with their support my advice is to keep an eye on the welds on the arms if you have the older machine they break I've had three break

We had our driver side arm start leaking on high pressure but got a welder to repair luckily before that point. Ouch

 

[JGinther]

I had a similar battle with Belanger for a long time and they acted like they had never heard if it before. Said I'm the only one they know of having that issue and it must just be a unicorn because it's a early machine and they said an entire new I/o system and touch panel would be required.

In the end, I installed an adjustable delay timer for the carriage home prox that would allow you to interrupt the home prox signal for a small period to allow the stupid machine to travel deeper into the home position. The machine hasn't missed a click since then. I think it ended up being 3/4 of a second that worked out well.

Crazy you have to field engineer a fix like that for a company the size of Belanger. It would be an easy software fix to make the machine park deeper, but somehow that's not an option?

 

[JGinther]

Whenever I had issues with proxes missing targets on my old Superior Side Trac I simply enlarged the target. Pretty simple to do. Why not try that?

If it drifts off 1/2", just extend the target in that direction by 1/2".

The problem is the machine stops at the target no matter where it is located. The machine stops so hard and fast that it doesn't even end up covering the prox my more than a quarter inch. Then, a little bounce back inertia can make the sensor stop reading and the machine is no longer home.

Its not a maintenance issue, it's a poor engineering issue and poor follow up to fix a poor engineering issue.

 

[JGinther]

The pendulum effect of a little slop in the long hanging arms along with a little wear in the aluminum drive components greatly exacerbates the software issue. You will want to make sure all the mechanical parts are good, then employ the delay on timer I mentioned or DakotaHoskins solution if needed.