Best Pre-Soaks out there?

[soonermajic]

What are some of the better Pre-Soaks out there? I use Lustra drum pack. It's about $165, works pretty good, but VERY expensive. Any that work great from Kleen-Rite, or someone else? I'm brand new to the Car Wash business, & trying to learn all I can...

 

[Kevin James]

We use the Kleen-Rite Super Clean powder and have been very pleased with the results. How much Lustra drum pack do you get for $165, what size container?

On another note, you’re going to find that the self serve car wash industry is a very expensive industry to be in, with very small profit margins. In other words it’s a low profit business.

 

[soonermajic]

How do you guys make money then?
I only charge .50 for Vacuums, & think I should go to .75. I KNOW there will be some complaints though, but 50 cents seems cheap. Very economically depressed area. My Manual bays are $1.50 start up, for 5:00 minutes. Don't offer many choices: HP Soap, Spot Free, Pre-Soak, Foam brush, HP rinse, & tire cleaner (which is just the pre-soak)

 

[robert roman]

“How do you guys make money then? In “Very economically depressed area”

Show customers how to clean and shine and protect their vehicles, economically.

Offer these choices on selector in this order.

START
HP SOAP
FOAM BRUSH (tri-foam)
HP RINSE
SPRAY WAX
SPOT FREE
STOP

This allows you to dump pre-soak (and tire cleaner) and add new features, tri-foam brush (shine) and wax (protect).

$1.50 to start is OK but make it 4-minutes instead of 5-min. $0.75 vacuum in depressed area is reasonable.

A better offer will help attract new customers as well as drive more existing customers to spend $3.00 or more plus vacuum.

 

[soonermajic]

Robert,
The clientele in my area are HOOKED on Pre-Soak, & I feel like they would go elsewhere if I dumped the Pre-Soak & Tire cleaner. I am intrigued by the Tri-Foam, but wonder how much it would cost to add that feature, & then keep it going...? You have made some good points & offerd good advice.
My wash , including the Automatic, only does about $3k/mo. My expenses are a lil over half that mount, as Our water/sewar & electric bills are high. My electric part is only about $95/mo, but my all my other elec associated charges are about $180 = $275/mo total! My electric charges are absolutely insane, but that is another thread. If I make $3k & spend $2k, there's not much left over to add a new feature that would costs thousands...

 

[soonermajic]

Any of you guys use Kleen Green, by Simoniz? It's only $50 for 50 lb & mixes in a 50 gallon drum (dilute 25/1...Blue tip , I think).
My Lustra drum pack is same weight & mixture, but costs $165 ! That's DOUBLE the amount!

 

[MEP001]

“How do you guys make money then? In “Very economically depressed area”

Show customers how to clean and shine and protect their vehicles, economically.

Offer these choices on selector in this order.

START
HP SOAP
FOAM BRUSH (tri-foam)
HP RINSE
SPRAY WAX
SPOT FREE
STOP

This allows you to dump pre-soak (and tire cleaner) and add new features, tri-foam brush (shine) and wax (protect).

Sorry, but this comment proves your absolute ignorance in the self-serve field.

 

[MEP001]

I am intrigued by the Tri-Foam, but wonder how much it would cost to add that feature, & then keep it going...?

A tri-foam system is not very different from foam brush, except there is an additional portion to control the colors. The simplest systems have three solenoids that switch the input to the pump from three tanks, and some have a separate pump for each color. If it works well and reliably, the only additional cost is the chemical. I go through six pails a year at $65 each, so cost is pretty low. About a third of customers use it.

 

[cantbreak80]

Before changing pre-soak product (which your customers are "Hooked on") maybe you should determine your actual cost of usage. In the self serve bay, get a good stream flowing then capture one minute's worth in a container. Then, let the foam dissipate (it does foam, doesn't it?). Then measure the liquid volume and do the math for your dilution ratio. You may find the expensive drum cost is not that expensive...especially if in order to get similar results with a less expensive product you might need two or three times the dilution ratio.

Foaming products take longer to apply and rinse off. Don't eliminate anything that generates more rinse time...rinse is the least expensive product you offer! On the other hand, don't make it too hard to rinse off because...cranky customers!

I consider tri-foam a supplier's dream. When I installed mine it didn't get any additional revenue from customers...most don't care if it's changing colors...they just want a clean car and white foam does just fine. Plus, no worries about staining due to flash drying in hot weather. Did I read something about Texas? Yeah, I thought so.

 

[rph9168]

Here is a way to measure how much chemical you are using for each service selection from an article that I wrote that will be in ALN's April issue. Hope it helps. If you have any questions just PM me.

A more accurate method is using volumetrics which involves physically measuring the amount of chemical consumed through an application system. Volumetric measuring is typically done with a graduated cylinder or measurement container the find out how much product is being consumed during the application process. It is usually measured in the form of ounces or milliliters. Volumetric measuring can also be utilized to check the validity of proportioning device such as a Hydrominder. The basic tool you would need are: Metric calibrated beaker or container (capable of holding at least 500 milliliters), siphon equipment (siphon pump or food baster) and hand held calculator.

Calculation Procedure
1. Fill volumetric container with solution from the drum or pail.
2. Write down starting amount in the container.
3. Place pick up tube from chemical dispenser into the container as far down as
it will go.
4. Wash at least 3-5 vehicles. (For self service run each product for one minute)
5. Remove pick up tube.
6. Record the amount left in the container and subtract it from the starting
amount.
7. Divide the amount used by the number of vehicles washed for automatics or
tunnels.
8. Divide the average amount used by 30 to convert to ounces.
9. Divide the selling price per gallon by 128 to calculate the cost per ounce.
10. Multiply the cost per ounce by the average amount used in a wash. For self service this would arrive at your cost per minute.

One thing to keep in mind is that all washes not the same. The product recommendations found on labels or tech sheets are a good place to start when setting up your chemicals. There needs to be some fine tuning done to achieve the best results at the best cost.

 

[Jeff_L]

This allows you to dump pre-soak (and tire cleaner)...

The above is one person's opinion, here's mine. Don't heed this advice, dumping this two product options would be ridiculous. These are cleaning products, your're in the business of cleaning, keep them.

 

[2Biz]

Another option, dump tire cleaner since its the same chemical as pre-soak and add tri-foam. My CW was set up the same way as yours when I purchased it. One of the first things I did was add tri-foam in place of tire cleaner.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Couple of points.

1. Since I have a Tunnel on site I use the same KR low PH product for the SS as for the tunnel.
2. We have "Air assist" just air line t'd in at the boom for Pre Soak. Gives a slight foaming action. Typicaly adding air cuts down on liquid used. Gives a nice show as well. Not huge amount of foam for PS but some.

 

[Earl Weiss]

................... The basic tool you would need are: Metric calibrated beaker or container (capable of holding at least 500 milliliters), siphon equipment (siphon pump or food baster) and hand held calculator.

Calculation Procedure
1. Fill volumetric container with solution from the drum or pail.
2. Write down starting amount in the container.
3. Place pick up tube from chemical dispenser into the container as far down as
it will go.
4. Wash at least 3-5 vehicles. (For self service run each product for one minute)

One thing to keep in mind is that all washes not the same. The product recommendations found on labels or tech sheets are a good place to start when setting up your chemicals. There needs to be some fine tuning done to achieve the best results at the best cost.

This is not the tunnel forum, but I use a standard time for this rather than 3-5 vehicles. I could get 6 mini coopers or 6 pickups and it would vary a lot. Instead I use a time factor (Plus I don't have to wait for the intervals.) If I use 20 seconds a car I simply flip on the controller function for 2 minutes and use that as a 6 car figure.

 

[robert roman]

“….clientele in my area are HOOKED on Pre-Soak, & I feel like they would go elsewhere if I dumped the Pre-Soak & Tire cleaner.”

Pre-soak is soap and soap is pre-soak.

Heroin addicts want heroin not pot.

So, if you sell customer’s a high quality soap, why would they quit coming because you no longer sold pre-soak.

Again, one way to make money with a self-serve wash in an economically depressed area is to not let customer’s waste time in order to get them to spend more money.

So, I suggested a product selection (clockwise) that is a process to clean and shine and protect a vehicle. This solves the customer’s problem. The only reason they visit you.

“…. there's not much left over to add a new feature that would costs thousands...”

I’ve helped a lot of people make a lot of money in the carwash business.

My experience shows you can make more money by providing a feature that generates income than you can by saving nickels on soap.

 

[MEP001]

I’ve helped a lot of people make a lot of money in the carwash business.

In the self-serve market? Maybe you should stick to the field you know, because most of us recognize we're selling time, as much as we can per customer. When you reduce the number of services, you reduce the amount of time the customer will spend washing.

In a self-serve, presoak and high-pressure soap are not the same even if it's the same chemical.

 

[slash007]

Another option, dump tire cleaner since its the same chemical as pre-soak and add tri-foam. My CW was set up the same way as yours when I purchased it. One of the first things I did was add tri-foam in place of tire cleaner.

At my site, pre-soak and tire cleaner are the same. I thought about getting rid of tire cleaner to add tri-foam, but I see a lot of people using the tire cleaner. They have no idea that it is only pre-soak, and not a single complaint. I am still torn between upping to a 10 position switch or getting rid of the tire cleaner.

 

[rph9168]

This is not the tunnel forum, but I use a standard time for this rather than 3-5 vehicles. I could get 6 mini coopers or 6 pickups and it would vary a lot. Instead I use a time factor (Plus I don't have to wait for the intervals.) If I use 20 seconds a car I simply flip on the controller function for 2 minutes and use that as a 6 car figure.

You are correct and it is a good idea to make sure you are not washing 3 - 5 of the same vehicles especially if they are large or very small. However I have used this procedure many times and it has proven to be as accurate as you need it to be. Generally I recommend that you do this periodically - maybe every three or four months. This should eliminate or reduce the chances of getting a poor reading due to the vehicles used in the sample while it insures that you are maintaining the chemical ratios that you feel are best for your wash. Of course if you want to you could run more vehicles but you would need much larger containers to hold the test samples.

 

[2Biz]

At my site, pre-soak and tire cleaner are the same. I thought about getting rid of tire cleaner to add tri-foam, but I see a lot of people using the tire cleaner. They have no idea that it is only pre-soak, and not a single complaint. I am still torn between upping to a 10 position switch or getting rid of the tire cleaner.

When swapping out Tire cleaner for Tri-Foam, people loved it! I never had a complaint about not having "Tire Cleaner". I believe people who used it on a regular basis knew they were the same. Another thing to consider, CB80 advised me to move the PS off the HP gun and put it on a foam gun and separate boom. So I combined Tri-foam and PS on the same foam gun/boom....Now PS foams better than before. No more HP check valves for PS and no more PS weep shutoff solenoids. I love it and so do the customers!

AS for measuring product???? I use Dwyer flow meters! No measuring cups and stop watches or car counts used here!

 

[soonermajic]

Slash007 described my Wash exactly.

2Biz, you make some interesting points, however....that is over my head. I JUST STARTED in the biz, & feel like I'm trying to learn Chinese arithmetic from some of you guys. lol