Blow down or weep?

[Joswhaha]

Howdy y’all
Does anyone have a plan for when you weep water or when it’s better to blow the lines out and pump in something to prevent freezing? Here it’s going to be 10 degrees tonight and 40 tomorrow then 20 tomorrow night and 60 on Saturday. I was considering blowing my lines out since it’s going to be so cold overnight but didn’t know if it is really necessary and know there will be people ready to wash tomorrow when it warms up.

Also, I thought of rigging a setup to blow air instead of water to save on water usage but don’t know if it’s effective.

Another thought, around here if it’s 20 degrees during the day pretty much no one is washing their car. Do you shut down for cold weather or just stay open?

 

[MEP001]

I just shut down my wash and four others I look after. Normally we all stay open and weep water, but it's been cold and windy here for 36 hours and don't want to risk ice on the floors and the obvious liabilities, so I just blew all the lines out and shut them down. The workers have instructions to turn power back on once it warms back up, and tomorrow evening I'll turn on the automatic weeps.

I don't think an air-only purge would be effective. There's bound to be a low point somewhere with water trapped that will freeze. I don't know how effective an antifreeze purge is, and I have concerns that even if it's kept from freezing with antifreeze, a cold gun will not freeze as soon as water hits it. Maybe someone with experience with this will chime in.

Last February we were shut down for four reasons: the cold itself (Who is going to wash their car in open bays when it's 6° F), the ice on the roads (We have zero equipment to deal with this and everyone was stuck at home), massive electrical outages, and water outages in the area of my wash. Some areas even lost gas. The only guy I know who didn't have damage had two propane patio heaters in his ER.

 

[traveler17]

I just shut down my wash and four others I look after. Normally we all stay open and weep water, but it's been cold and windy here for 36 hours and don't want to risk ice on the floors and the obvious liabilities, so I just blew all the lines out and shut them down. The workers have instructions to turn power back on once it warms back up, and tomorrow evening I'll turn on the automatic weeps.

I don't think an air-only purge would be effective. There's bound to be a low point somewhere with water trapped that will freeze. I don't know how effective an antifreeze purge is, and I have concerns that even if it's kept from freezing with antifreeze, a cold gun will not freeze as soon as water hits it. Maybe someone with experience with this will chime in.

Last February we were shut down for four reasons: the cold itself (Who is going to wash their car in open bays when it's 6° F), the ice on the roads (We have zero equipment to deal with this and everyone was stuck at home), massive electrical outages, and water outages in the area of my wash. Some areas even lost gas. The only guy I know who didn't have damage had two propane patio heaters in his ER.

I use a patio heater and wish I would’ve done it sooner!!

 

[cantbreak80]

2Biz has a really nice setup for manually protecting and closing the bays with compressed air and washer fluid...

This is what I designed to replace the original antiquated Mark VII weep system. It also incorporates air blowdown and washer fluid injection for semi automatic/manual operation....The two poly tubes at the bottom are for air and washer fluid. Weep water comes in from the top... I also have a LP washer fluid automated blowdown and washer fluid injection system that winterizes 8 LP hoses that I pull WF from...

Air is injected to whatever bay I want till the HP hose is purged....Then I open another valve from the washer fluid injection system that uses a flojet pump.....I leave the HP hose filled with Washer fluid and leave the weep BV turned off till I want to bring the bay back into service. At first I was blowing the WF out, but had too much trouble bringing the bays back online. The inside of the hose would dry out and flake off debris in the hose. Almost 100% of the time I'd have a plugged nozzle. Leaving WF in the hose eliminated that issue and still keeps lines from freezing to -20°... Tested to -16°!

I never close completely down...Sometimes down to (1) bay, but still open for the die-hards!

So to the OP, maybe this will give you some ideas! Its actually pretty simple and works great!

 

[Joswhaha]

Im thinking my SOP will be if it’s below freezing for over 24 hours or so straight I will blow everything down and shut the power off. That is maybe 0-4 times a year.
Do you take off the brush and gun and blow it out of just force air through the lines to push the water out?
I could rig up a air blow through where my weep is set up. I could shut the water valve and plumb air to the same piping to blow the water from the lines. I could install an air line where the gauges are and blow out to the bays.

Most of my piping is in an insulated, heat traced trough inside the attic so that should help with that if I can get the water out of the hoses that run out to the bays.

 

[mjwalsh]

Up north like where I am ... car wash bays tend to have overhead doors on both end which makes recovery after extreme low temps more possible. Blow out with antifreeze is smart ... but even without 100% blow out ... at least a partial blow out will make it so fittings are less likely to burst as a result of freezing. The same check valves for our manual water weep work for our blow out also. Manually opening & closing a small master valve for the specific needed bay blow out is the way we do it. BTW ... we rarely use our water weep.

Increased local competition makes it so we tend to open just our 3 totally enclosed & not our 3 partially enclosed bays when the days are so short & temperatures are not warm enough to get large numbers of customers to come. That means we are no longer blowing our 3 partially enclosed bay near as often as we used to. The level of manpower & me getting a bit older is also a factor. Regular customers who understand & appreciate our format helps a lot ... vs some of our competition who has 24/7 auto open & close ovd doors etc.

 

[Randy]

We are done fighting the ice, snow and freezing cold. We don’t have floor heat or doors. We shut down for 8 days the day after Christmas, we got 8” of snow then it never got up past 25, didn’t miss it all. I put a “T” in the weep system just downstream of the normally open weep solenoid valve and connect an air hose to the “T” and blow air into the system and then pump -22 windshield washer fluid into the weep system. We take the guns and foam brushes off, you don’t have to, we do it so we don’t lose any of them. We’ve been doing it like this for years. This year’s 8 day shutdown was the longest that I can remember.

 

[mjwalsh]

We are done fighting the ice, snow and freezing cold. We don’t have floor heat or doors. We shut down for 8 days the day after Christmas, we got 8” of snow then it never got up past 25, didn’t miss it all. I put a “T” in the weep system just downstream of the normally open weep solenoid valve and connect an air hose to the “T” and blow air into the system and then pump -22 windshield washer fluid into the weep system. We take the guns and foam brushes off, you don’t have to, we do it so we don’t lose any of them. We’ve been doing it like this for years. This year’s 8 day shutdown was the longest that I can remember.

Thanks Randy,

If we find the time ... I think a future project could be to figure out a way to specifically include the tire/motor & presoak with the high pressure for our partially enclosed front bays so that the specific -22 windshield wiper fluid can receive without interconnection complication after the blow out. Do your think a small low cost boat 12VDC bilge pump might be the best to use as long as the pump lift is high enough considering the tiny quantity of the -22 fluid would be required? I am thinking 1 quick stainless or brass disconnect could interface to the pump for our specific pertinent non enclosed bays!

Whose says that this forum is not sometimes worth its weight in gold.

 

[MEP001]

If I were to purge the lines and shut down the bays only a few times a year, I would take a length of PVC, cap the bottom and put a tubing outlet on the bottom, fill it with maybe a half gallon of antifreeze, cap the top with another tubing fitting for air and just turn the air on until everything is blowing clear.

 

[Randy]

I put together a freezing weather "Shut Down kit" that I keep in a 5 gallon bucket with everything I need to shut down the car wash, Flojet pump, hoses, 3/8" fittings , valves etc. I keep it staged so when I need to use it it's ready, I keep it stored up in the attic. In August or September I'll buy 5 gallons of -20 washer fluid, if I was in an area that they don't sell -20 washer fluid, I'd order it in. I put a 1/4" ball valve on the end of each hose out in the bays and blow down each hose separately with air then pump in the washer fluid and then blow it down again with air reclaiming the washer fluid in case I need to use it again.

 

[mjwalsh]

I put together a freezing weather "Shut Down kit" that I keep in a 5 gallon bucket with everything I need to shut down the car wash, Flojet pump, hoses, 3/8" fittings , valves etc. I keep it staged so when I need to use it it's ready, I keep it stored up in the attic. In August or September I'll buy 5 gallons of -20 washer fluid, if I was in an area that they don't sell -20 washer fluid, I'd order it in. I put a 1/4" ball valve on the end of each hose out in the bays and blow down each hose separately with air then pump in the washer fluid and then blow it down again with air reclaiming the washer fluid in case I need to use it again.

I only use my boat bilge pump during the summer (available during the winter time); so ideally that will have enough lift ... that would be the easiest if it tests OK to do the job. My general manager was thinking that the use of a venturi in a tee fitting could even make sense. It would start drawing the -22° F liquid towards the end of the blowout. The 1/4" fitting makes sense ... because if it is below 35° F the nozzles tend to freeze before a thorough enough blow out occurs. Apparently the air blowing through the small orifice causes the temperature of the air below freezing ... happens every season if we get careless & not blow our while the guns with nozzles are put in a 5 gallon pail of HOT WATER.

 

[jack954]

i do not have floor heat so i shut down the bays. anything over a 12 hour shutdown i will clear out the lines so not to weep. i pretty much do it the same way as randy. i first blow out all lines, then pump (flojet) windshield washer fluid thru with guns and foam brushes in 5 gal buckets, then blow out the washer fluid saving most of it for the next use. no need to remove any guns or brushes with this method. before this i just blew out the lines only and many would freeze still. heating and weeping the water, fighting ice, using up salt is not worth to me the few coming in at 25 degrees and lower. i do leave my automatic open and have a sign, i have noticed that some people have become automatic customers because of that.

 

[Randy]

We pull the guns and foam brush handles when we shut down for freezing weather because they have a tendency to disappear if we don’t pull them, it also makes it easier to reclaim the washer fluid.

 

[Earl Weiss]

MEP001

(Who is going to wash their car in open bays when it's 6° F),
Thought the same thing - I was wrong.

 

[jack954]

your right earl, doesn’t matter the temp as some will still try. which brings up a good point for new owners, be sure to turn off power to the bays as the entitled public feels it’s okay to move your cone and reopen your bay for you

 

[Toms PTcarwash]

We had a bit of snow earlier this week. It was 9 degrees here this morning. Its now warmed up to 16. Watching the cameras I have had 6 people wash in the last hour. Temp is supposed to get up to 29. I will most likely have a waiting line starting around noon.
When it gets down to the mid 20's I have to shut off my autowash, but I have never shut down my self serve bays.

 

[MEP001]

MEP001

(Who is going to wash their car in open bays when it's 6° F),
Thought the same thing - I was wrong.

Yeah, but you guys are used to the cold. We avoid going outside if it's below 40°.

 

[slash007]

5 degrees here this morning and people had started washing. I had blown out my TF lines and shut the weep off to them, but left the FB weep and HP hoses weeping.

 

[Joswhaha]

I think some of you guys best days are days we have zero customers. So far, if it’s under 20 degrees, customers are nonexistent. Around here we just wait a day or two and it will be in the 60s again.

I ended up just letting the water weep during the recent cold spell. I had 1 of the curly foam brush hoses freeze but no real issues. Well except all the water wasted.

 

[SplashDash]

Howdy y’all
Does anyone have a plan for when you weep water or when it’s better to blow the lines out and pump in something to prevent freezing? Here it’s going to be 10 degrees tonight and 40 tomorrow then 20 tomorrow night and 60 on Saturday. I was considering blowing my lines out since it’s going to be so cold overnight but didn’t know if it is really necessary and know there will be people ready to wash tomorrow when it warms up.

Also, I thought of rigging a setup to blow air instead of water to save on water usage but don’t know if it’s effective.

Another thought, around here if it’s 20 degrees during the day pretty much no one is washing their car. Do you shut down for cold weather or just stay open?

We never shut down, we wrap all pipes on the trailer tape, keep heat tape like for gutters on all pipes & trough. amazing that people still wash in subzero temp. We do post signs wash as your own risk due to ice & freezing temps.