Cat 310 pulsating

[Jason Studer]

Last night one of my selfserve bays were pulsating and had really low pressure, I pulled out all six plungers, cleaned them and reinstalled. The bay worked great as I cleaned it up, running the bay for 6-7 minutes. Last night a customer left a message stating it was doing the same as I had exsperienced. When I tested it it was fine. Any ideas what is going on?

 

[Jason Studer]

I forgot to mention, this pump is only 2 years old.

 

[Greg]

Hi Jason,
What did you find in the 6 pump valves when you removed and cleaned them? (I suspect you meant "valves" and not "plungers" as originally described)
It is possible that after you completed your service, more debris entered the pump and became lodged in the valves while your customer was washing and the pulsating & low pressure symptoms returned. By the time you came back to the wash, that debris may have flushed itself through the pump during your next customer wash or during your evaluation and the pulsating went away.

Check your water supply tank and any filters/stainers in your water supply line feeding the pump and clean if necessary.

Check also the pressure regulator to clean any debris that made it through the pump. Any debris that makes it though the pump has to continue downstream and the next "trap" is the pressure regulator.

Greg Thoennes
Arimitsu Pumps
Sales & Tech.Support

 

[Jason Studer]

I toke every thing apart, cleaned resealed and put bach together, The pressure is fine, I can feel very little pulsation on the hose only with trigger pulled, and a little more with trigger released. I am going to leave it for now and watch it closely. It is 35 and sunny.

What should my next step be, when I have time.

 

[Greg]

Hi Jason,
When you say "resealed", did you put new seals in the pump? If not, that would be my next step.

Greg Thoennes
Sales & Tech.Support
Arimitsu Pumps

 

[phred113]

This guy may have a washed out head and re-sealing with new parts would be a waste of money. Check for the washout that is common in this model before you put anymore money into this pump.

 

[MEP001]

You said you took out the 6 plungers - I can only assume you mean the valves. Remove them again and look inside them. You may have a piece of debris that floats around and on occasion gets under the poppet, which will make it pulsate intermittently.

Do a search on this forum for pump problems - without knowing what you're looking for, you may be diagnosing the wrong problem entirely. You might have an air leak or a water restriction.

 

[Jason Studer]

Sorry I did mean valves, I did not see anything, but I was running water over them and working the valve at the same time.

When I said reseal I only resealed all the fittings, when I removed them for a good cleaning, to clean everything of debris.

It has been running nonstop all day with no problem, but the minor pulsating, Would you concern yourself with a minor pulsate that can only be felt with a hand on the hose?

 

[MEP001]

I do, mainly because the pulsation could be a bad seal. If it's left too long it can allow the manifold to wash out, and it's $317 for a new one last time I looked in Kleen-Rite's catalog.

 

[CWC DS]

All of the answers are possibly correct, but it could also be as simple as a loose clamp allowing the pump to "suck air" into the pump

 

[Greywolf]

I run a carwash that was built in the 80's. We have found with pulsation problems before and found in a couple of cases that the cure was a new pump, wand handle (yep, mech. inside was no engaging completely) or unloader valve (believe this is what you folks call the accumalator). The one bay that is not working has had a new rebuilt pump (cat 310), new pulsation dampener, unloader valve but nothing with the inlet lines. 600psi is the best pressure we can get, we normally run with 900psi. Will be looking into that next (inlet feed lines to the pumps, they are old....verrryyyy old...lol). As I said, this is an old carwash and routine maintenence has not been done.

 

[MEP001]

The "accumulator" is the pulsation damper. The "unloader valve" is a type of regulator.

What size are your pulleys? What size tip are you using?

Another likely problem is your weep solenoid. Check your other bays for a small flow of waer when the pump with weak pressure is running.

 

[Greywolf]

Thanks for the correction. The accumalator is new, the pully size I could not say but are the same size as the other 4 bays. Do not see any water seepage. Getting ready to check the inlet line to the pumps. All of the equipment is old and not had any good maintenance on it so a line with a crack or loose clamp would not surprise me....

 

[Greywolf]

Another issue we have resolved is the soap and wax bins. Prior to us taking over, the man running the carwash was hand mixing the soap and wax by eye ball and feel even though the water bins have hybro-minders. We have stopped that practice and installed the needed metering valves and we now are getting the proper solution. Our tips are from Kleen-Rite, pn#GPN2507 which matches with the Cat 310 (4gpm).

 

[MEP001]

What does the pump sound like when it's running? If the inlet hose is collapsed and restricting flow it will clatter loudly. If it sounds the same as the other bays, the supply is probably ok.

I meant weep check valve above, not weep solenoid. If you have spot-free rinse, or really any check valve on the high-pressure line, it could be bad and allowing high pressure back into something else. The usual location for these is on top of the boom in the bay. Disconnect the line where it goes into the check valve and turn the bay on to see.

 

[car washing systems inc]

I run a carwash that was built in the 80's. We have found with pulsation problems before and found in a couple of cases that the cure was a new pump, wand handle (yep, mech. inside was no engaging completely) or unloader valve (believe this is what you folks call the accumalator). The one bay that is not working has had a new rebuilt pump (cat 310), new pulsation dampener, unloader valve but nothing with the inlet lines. 600psi is the best pressure we can get, we normally run with 900psi. Will be looking into that next (inlet feed lines to the pumps, they are old....verrryyyy old...lol). As I said, this is an old carwash and routine maintenence has not been done.

Have you checked the belts and the tip in the bay? Did you replace/ check valves? Did you check to make sure the head is not washed out.

 

[DiamondWash]

Funny I ran across this thread, I was going to start a new one about my Cat 5CP and low pressure 800-850 psi and pulsating in the bay. I though the motor could be going out or not spinning at 1725 rpm, the medium pressure is fine at 500 psi but just cannot get to the high pressure at 1000 psi even with a new 2507 nozzle, new wand gun, regulator, belt, new hi/low seals.

 

[Greywolf]

oh damn, another valve to check... was not aware of check valves up in the boom.... crap....lol. So what does this valve look like? and any way of recognizing it as a check valve.... newbee here to carwashes...lol. did solve one problem of a bay pulsating while wand is not engaged and smooth when the wand is used.... not sure if this is a permenate fix but lowing the pressure from 1100 to 900psi stopped the pulsation...... any thoughts on this?

 

[MEP001]

Funny I ran across this thread, I was going to start a new one about my Cat 5CP and low pressure 800-850 psi and pulsating in the bay. I though the motor could be going out or not spinning at 1725 rpm, the medium pressure is fine at 500 psi but just cannot get to the high pressure at 1000 psi even with a new 2507 nozzle, new wand gun, regulator, belt, new hi/low seals.

There's no way the motor could cause pulsating. Did you check the valve o-rings, and the valve seats?

 

[MEP001]

oh damn, another valve to check... was not aware of check valves up in the boom.... crap....lol. So what does this valve look like? and any way of recognizing it as a check valve.... newbee here to carwashes...lol. did solve one problem of a bay pulsating while wand is not engaged and smooth when the wand is used.... not sure if this is a permenate fix but lowing the pressure from 1100 to 900psi stopped the pulsation...... any thoughts on this?

Did you check the valve o-rings? That's the usual first cause of pulsating and low pressure. Lowering the pressure is only hiding the problem.