soonermajic
Well-known member
If you guys only spend ,13 per car, why does everyone feel the need to go up $3--->$5?
Ceramic coatings
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I.B. Washincars
Car Washer Emeritus
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Because they can...
washnshine
Well-known member
Yes - you need a very clean car for maximum performance. If your TF presoaks aren’t cutting it, you won’t get the high end result.
washnshine
Well-known member
It is also the product performance they receive, coach. You can give insane results - incredible shine on all surfaces, smooth feeling paint and glass, super water beading and soil repellency for several weeks- which ultimately makes it easier for the operator to rewash. They basically get the results of a “quick wax” in no extra time and without having to leave the car. I think they measure
What they get vs. time and price and it isn’t hard at all to sell and justify that results for $4 at all.
Also - think of the cost of your run of the mill sealer - it might cost $65 -70 per pail. - probably costs us a nickel or less per application, but we get maybe $2 for it in a wash package. We’re actually making more on that product and it doesn’t even come close to the level of performance of a ceramic.
I don’t thing our costs regularly enter the mind of your average consumer.
washnshine
Well-known member
Yes / it has extreme value to customers because of its performance.
washnshine
Well-known member
Yes - I learned about “contact angle” which is basically the height of a bead of water from a very knowledgeable Chem rep. The higher the number, the higher the bead and easier it runs/blows off the surface - basically shows you repellency. Oil based drying agents bead angles are around 80°, sealers are around 90° or so, hot wax/carnauba products are around 110° and the ceramic type products exceed 120° contact angle for their beads.
These contact angles do not add up when layered - so if you put on hot wax, ceramic, a sealer and a drying agent, you do not get water beads with a contact angle of 400°!
You will get the results of your highest- performing product - in this case, the ceramic product - or 120° or so contact angle.
We layer because our packages are designed to add more and more, but we do have finite capabilities, which are dependent on our most effective/advanced product.
traveler17
Well-known member
5 gallons on the Blair ceramics and im
Just over 3000 cars last 2 months and have 1/4 pail left. This stuff stretches
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washnshine
Well-known member
Yes I have - it is very good, but their premium ceramic product is Total Shield. The thing with Vanta Gloss is they have a foamy version if you want to apply it before a mitter or wraps and polish it in, but the Total Shield is pretty much exclusively a spray on/rinse off final Sealant step. Total Shield is the most durable and effective sealer they have. It is on par with Simoniz Ceramic Sealer which I am now using. I just like the Simoniz better, but the TS is still excellent.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Is vanatagloss and vantagloss ceramic different products? I thought they just added the ceramic name to the product because operators are wanting to offer a "ceramic product".
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Any detectable difference in performance or dilution ratios?
washnshine
Well-known member
Yes - same thing- just added ceramic to the name. Still has high and low foam versions, just like when it was called plain old “Vantagloss”.
washnshine
Well-known member
Total Shield definitely is more durable to rain/weather and washings when used at the same dilution ratio as Vantagloss. With Total Shield you can actually see the beads start running down the car when it is applied by an arch - even before the rinse. The Simoniz ceramic does that too - really shows the repellency on contact. They all really put a noticeable luster on the cars. Jason at Quest told me that if you can only use 1, it should be the TS. That would be my approach with to Simoniz too - If I could only apply one, it would definitely be the ceramic sealant.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
Thanks, I was interested in total shield vs simoniz, what it is that makes you actually prefer that and if the cost per car is comparable.
On my istobal friction on the top wash, I apply vantagloss low foam followed by a pass of total shield extreme directly on top. I think the ratios are around 150:1. Both products work well. Istobal has a "brushed in wax" feature but I don't utilize that as Jason says it shouldn't be necessary and it saves me at least a minute.
On my touch free water wizard, I have recently started using foamy vantagloss as my tri foam. I just installed an LED kit on them so the single color product works. The top wash also has a low pressure application of H2off. The vantaglosss should offer the gloss and slickness but is supposedly not that durable. The H20ff is less durable than total shield extreme. I don't want to create a dirt trapping problem with touch free on a dirty car. It would be nice to streamline products and just use either extreme or H2off at different dilutions for the same purpose.
I'm using vantagloss foamy as a tri color and H2OFF as a HP wax at one wash- it works well
On my istobal friction on the top wash, I apply vantagloss low foam followed by a pass of total shield extreme directly on top. I think the ratios are around 150:1. Both products work well. Istobal has a "brushed in wax" feature but I don't utilize that as Jason says it shouldn't be necessary and it saves me at least a minute.
On my touch free water wizard, I have recently started using foamy vantagloss as my tri foam. I just installed an LED kit on them so the single color product works. The top wash also has a low pressure application of H2off. The vantaglosss should offer the gloss and slickness but is supposedly not that durable. The H20ff is less durable than total shield extreme. I don't want to create a dirt trapping problem with touch free on a dirty car. It would be nice to streamline products and just use either extreme or H2off at different dilutions for the same purpose.
I'm using vantagloss foamy as a tri color and H2OFF as a HP wax at one wash- it works well
washnshine
Well-known member
Oh - sorry - I misunderstood. Yes cost per car is very close - maybe even a little bit less with Simoniz. My preference with the Simoniz is the viscosity is is bit thinner and the draw is more accurate. I also like the scent better and finally, it is a little more free/clean rinsing. If there is a little left in a side view mirror housing and it gets blown on the glass or runs out later, I don’t noice the streaking or spotting with the Simoniz
Yes - every chem rep I have ever asked about the carnauba waxes tells me that brushing in is not necessary and is more for customer show than any tangible result. They usually cite all the touch free IBA’s that use carnauba and can’t brush it in!
When I started using carnauba in my tunnel, I always applied it after all the friction with a dedicated set of K nozzles that foam it up nicely and then rinse. I don’t brush it in.
