Hey everyone, this may be an ignorant question but please be patient with me. I have only been in the car wash business for a few months. I was wondering how you calculate chemical dilutions. For example if I'm trying to get tire cleaner to a 90:1 dilution how do I calculate that? Is it based solely on the tip used on the hydrominder? Thanks!
Chemical Dilutions
- Thread starter Noob
- Start date
MEP001
Well-known member
That's a good question. You'd need a flow meter to get an accurate dilution. I'm sure 2Biz will chime in shortly and share some pictures.
FWIW I don't go much by recommended dilution, I just set it up where it cleans well.
FWIW I don't go much by recommended dilution, I just set it up where it cleans well.
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 6,390
- Reaction score
- 949
- Points
- 113
I do the same, cleaning and sudsy show.
Just selecting a tip from the chart is a good place to start, but as always, there is more to it. Check the screen at the water inlet to the Hydrominder and the rubber diaphragm should be replaced about every 2 ore 3 years. Even then you are getting an average dilution ratio. The eductor sucks chemical the way old carburetors sucked gasoline. On a slow day the water pressure will usually be at its highest, but on a busy weekend when everyone is home and washing clothes and the car and watering the lawn, it can drop to half.
thanks for the help guys. It is much appreciated. Can you guys tell me the benefit of heating water/ chemicals? I currently am not heating anything. Do chemicals clean better hot? Do you get a better yield when heating?
Also I am trying to get prepared for winter. My equipment is heated and decently insulated. I also have weep. I do not have a trough or an attic. All my lines run through pvc pipe at the top of my bays. Should I be trying to insulated/heat those lines? Will it help save on water cost from weeping if I do heat them? I am in TN so my winters aren’t usually terrible but we do have periods where it’s consistently below freezing.
Also I am trying to get prepared for winter. My equipment is heated and decently insulated. I also have weep. I do not have a trough or an attic. All my lines run through pvc pipe at the top of my bays. Should I be trying to insulated/heat those lines? Will it help save on water cost from weeping if I do heat them? I am in TN so my winters aren’t usually terrible but we do have periods where it’s consistently below freezing.
Roz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2017
- Messages
- 1,354
- Reaction score
- 798
- Points
- 113
Heating water is a big controversy. In general I have been told that as long as the water is room temp (ie your equipment room is not too cold) the chemicals these days mix fine. Some will argue that customers like the feel of the hot water through the lines when working outside in the winter but your gas costs will be high.
Hot water is not a substitute for weeping a line as your water will freeze in the middle of the night or whenever not in use for a long time. We have floor heating and have an extra floor heating line run through the trough. You can also wrap your lines with electrical heating tape on a thermostat to help reduce the risk of freezing lines. I purchased an industrial strength heating tape that is better than the Home Depot version.
You will probably hear from half the people here that you must heat the water for the chemicals to work and the other half that say they have never heated their water.... Heated floors or the lack there of are the real business killer. Before we redid our floors this summer we had to close our SS bays whenever temps were below freezing since the floors posed a risk to customers slipping.
Hot water is not a substitute for weeping a line as your water will freeze in the middle of the night or whenever not in use for a long time. We have floor heating and have an extra floor heating line run through the trough. You can also wrap your lines with electrical heating tape on a thermostat to help reduce the risk of freezing lines. I purchased an industrial strength heating tape that is better than the Home Depot version.
You will probably hear from half the people here that you must heat the water for the chemicals to work and the other half that say they have never heated their water.... Heated floors or the lack there of are the real business killer. Before we redid our floors this summer we had to close our SS bays whenever temps were below freezing since the floors posed a risk to customers slipping.
As Mac explains, there is a lot more to get correct soap and wax dilutions without throwing $$$ down the drain. You might try the suggested hydrominder ratio's listed on your product based on what your water hardness is. I would assume there are needle valves on the solenoids for fine tuning....Do you use soft water? Water hardness plays a huge roll with your settings and the amount of soap and wax you will use. The only functions I heat are soap and wax. I use cold water for all the hydrominders. I think this is pretty typical of a lot of the washes out there if they heat water at all.
Do you have a weepmiser? If you don't, profits are going down the drain below 36°...
It always helps the more you insulate and heat the trough, but that doesn't replace weep water. If you heat your trough, you might get by with less weep, but you won't eliminate it. I have a loop from my floor heat going through the trough and also Raychem Heat Tape. The key is to not let any outside air in the trough. My trough has a 2" wide slot down the entire length for ease of maintenance. I cut 8' strips of insulation and stuff it in the trough to completely seal it up. Since doing that, I have never had a freeze-up...Before I did that was a different story...
Do you have a weepmiser? If you don't, profits are going down the drain below 36°...
It always helps the more you insulate and heat the trough, but that doesn't replace weep water. If you heat your trough, you might get by with less weep, but you won't eliminate it. I have a loop from my floor heat going through the trough and also Raychem Heat Tape. The key is to not let any outside air in the trough. My trough has a 2" wide slot down the entire length for ease of maintenance. I cut 8' strips of insulation and stuff it in the trough to completely seal it up. Since doing that, I have never had a freeze-up...Before I did that was a different story...
JGinther
Zip-tie engineer
The only answer is yes. Heating makes the molecules move faster in a liquid (same for gas or solid). Cleaning with soap is a matter of aligning up the molecules of soap around the oil (or dirt) in such a way as to create a micelle. The faster they move, the faster they get in the correct location to make it work. Its basically supercharging the way soap works. Have you ever tried to get grease off of your hands with cold water, then tried hot? Same thing basically.
2biz I do have a weepmizer that is set up to weep my guns and my FB. This is my first winter in the car wash business and I am trying to figure out if it is better to weep the FB or shut off the FB weep and use winter soap? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have not tested my water yet but will be doing so tomorrow. Ill let you know the results when I find out. My initial guess is that it is going to be fairly hard.
If I wanted to install flow meters is that possible with my current setup? My solenoids are in very close quarters to my T valves mixing with my rinse water.
As far as heating water does anyone have experience with immersion heaters? My tanks are fairly small so Im not sure this would or would not work.
Ill attach a picture of my current plumbing. I believe that if I soften my water or heat my water Ill have to do some replumbing. Right now all of my functions are fed from one main supply line.
View attachment 1206 View attachment 1207
Again, Thanks for the help guys. It is much appreciated!
If I wanted to install flow meters is that possible with my current setup? My solenoids are in very close quarters to my T valves mixing with my rinse water.
As far as heating water does anyone have experience with immersion heaters? My tanks are fairly small so Im not sure this would or would not work.
Ill attach a picture of my current plumbing. I believe that if I soften my water or heat my water Ill have to do some replumbing. Right now all of my functions are fed from one main supply line.
View attachment 1206 View attachment 1207
Again, Thanks for the help guys. It is much appreciated!
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 6,390
- Reaction score
- 949
- Points
- 113
Your profile says you are in Tennessee. , How cold does it get? Do you have trough heat? Anti freeze foam brush soap helps keep lines from freezing but it's important for those in a cold climate to keep the foam fro freezing on the car as well. I am in Chicago so I do both AF foam brush soap an weep the FB with the weepmizer. You need to vary the FB AF Soap dilutions by temperature and if you are hoping to do this to keep the lines liquid that would require you changing dilutions and purging the lines as temp dropped which is not realistic. (Or always run at Max Concentration which is expensive.
MEP001
Well-known member
I'm in central Texas with very mild winters - it rarely stays below freezing all day. It's convenient enough for me to add a few gallons of cheap washer solvent and a shot of blue foam brush detergent so I can manually purge the bays. The tank is huge and I keep the float set very low so once that antifreeze mix is gone it goes back to usual.
Very nice, Clean, and Simple pump-stand! It would be easy to install flow meters. Maybe you can get some ideas from how I did mine. See post 45 through 48 in the thread below:
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...t-Mark-VII-Pump-Stand/page5&highlight=Modding
I agree with the others concerning Methanol Soap for FB...I tried it for a few years and it was rather expensive. It was also a pain switching back and forth between cold and warm spells...Weep water is expensive, so I couldn't imagine weeping the FB's...HP wands is bad enough. I pay close to $20 a 1000 gallons for water and sewage, so you don't want to waste it. I opted to install a blowdown/washer fluid injection system for the foam guns and FB hoses....Works great and costs about $50 to winterize 8 hoses during the winter. I started a thread several years ago high lighting the home brew project. See post 75 of the thread below.
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...ble-Relay-or-PLC/page8&highlight=programmable
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...t-Mark-VII-Pump-Stand/page5&highlight=Modding
I agree with the others concerning Methanol Soap for FB...I tried it for a few years and it was rather expensive. It was also a pain switching back and forth between cold and warm spells...Weep water is expensive, so I couldn't imagine weeping the FB's...HP wands is bad enough. I pay close to $20 a 1000 gallons for water and sewage, so you don't want to waste it. I opted to install a blowdown/washer fluid injection system for the foam guns and FB hoses....Works great and costs about $50 to winterize 8 hoses during the winter. I started a thread several years ago high lighting the home brew project. See post 75 of the thread below.
http://www.autocareforum.com/showth...ble-Relay-or-PLC/page8&highlight=programmable
Thanks for the help guys. One last thing. My chemical line to the hudrominders keep leaking chemicals back into the chem tank and they have huge pockets of air in them. I know I’m not getting a consistent dilution. Is this a foot valve problem? Could be there be a problem like a small hole in my chem line? Sometimes this is very aggravating especially for a rookie.
Our winters here are not terrible we may have a few days at a time when temps drop below freezing but usually not long periods of time. I don’t think I have time to set up a new purge system this year but I would like to do it for next year.
Our winters here are not terrible we may have a few days at a time when temps drop below freezing but usually not long periods of time. I don’t think I have time to set up a new purge system this year but I would like to do it for next year.
Yea, you have a foot valve either not holding or its leaking around the hose and barb at the foot valve. Whenever I change a FV, I always replace the hose too. The hose will become hard and not seal around the barb. Here is a good thread on FV's and how crappy some have become.
http://www.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?14243-Blue-Gray-foot-valves&highlight=foot
http://www.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?14243-Blue-Gray-foot-valves&highlight=foot
Something else I do when installing a FV. I make up the hose and FV assembly, put the FV in a bucket of water, and try blowing back through the hose. If it's leaking either around the barb or the FV seal, it's much easier to fix than after its been in the chemical.
docopp
New member
I agree that the best chemical dilutions will be found by trial and error
I have learned, used great products, not cheap soaps etc.... you use more cheap soap to achieve decent result so no cost saving
When I bought my SS car wash 2 years ago, they used cheeeeep products, no scent, no color no foam.....
I am very pleased with Trans-Mate soaps, waxes etc from Kleen Rite (disclaimer-I have no financial relationship with Kleen Rite or Trans-Mate except..... I give them $$$ for their products !! LOL)
Start with a tip in the middle of the chart (buy a bag of them, assorted sizes), look at what products look like coming out of their nozzles, change tip to more or less to achieve a visible, foamy and smell experience for the customer.
My advice, the products they use in the bay are the most important part of our SS car washes
I have learned, used great products, not cheap soaps etc.... you use more cheap soap to achieve decent result so no cost saving
When I bought my SS car wash 2 years ago, they used cheeeeep products, no scent, no color no foam.....
I am very pleased with Trans-Mate soaps, waxes etc from Kleen Rite (disclaimer-I have no financial relationship with Kleen Rite or Trans-Mate except..... I give them $$$ for their products !! LOL)
Start with a tip in the middle of the chart (buy a bag of them, assorted sizes), look at what products look like coming out of their nozzles, change tip to more or less to achieve a visible, foamy and smell experience for the customer.
My advice, the products they use in the bay are the most important part of our SS car washes
