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chemicals an informal poll

parsonii

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you guys haven't talked about this for a while. i was noticing that a number of exhibitors at the western car show are chemical companies .. they've been multiplying and with the big trend of volume over average ticket price is here to stay, these chemical companies are making a killing im sure. with a quick scan at the exhibitors i see: turtle wax, lee soap, lustra, simonize, diamond shine, stringer, zep, warsaw, kaady and im sure a couple that i don't even recognize. so which of these companies do you use and why? they all claim this and that ... is there any science to their claims? im skeptical.
 
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robert roman

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“these chemical companies are making a killing im sure”

I would say a fair profit but arguably not a killing.

Carwash chemical was $1.4 billion market in 2005, today, about $1.2 billion.

Like express wash, carwash chemical is a COG and high fixed cost business. A new chemical plant can cost $1.0 billion.

Over last decade, volatility in price of chemical feed stocks (oil, natural gas) and building blocks of surfactants like sulfonates have really tightened up margins.

Bathtub blenders account for about 30 percent of the carwash market, 60 percent regional brands and 10 percent national. Big guys make money selling to other markets like cleaning supplies.

“they all claim this and that ... is there any science to their claims? im skeptical.”

Plenty of science involved. What claims are you skeptical about?
 

Earl Weiss

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Name Brand - Rain X. All SS products - Kleen Rite. Tunnel Low PH, Triple Foam Soap, Triple Foam Polish , Sealer Wax, Kleen Rite. Wheel Cleaner and Drying agent, now from Simonize Rep.


Why? IMNSHHO KR gives best bang for the buck, Cleaning and show. Could not find Drying agent and Wheel Cleaner from KR that seemed to work well, and the Rain X has the name for markleting.. Use same Low PH in Tunnel and SS as pre soak and SS HP soap. KR Pre Soaks got gummy so i gave up on it and less stuff to stock. Had at least 4 reps from big name companies come in and claim they could match KR value. They set up samples. They could not match it. Then they tried to sell me on "Service" or perceived value by customer. I declined.
I started using KR after tips from this forum. Saved me a boatload of $.
 

JeffM

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All Lustra products. We switched distributers about 5-6 years ago when we opened a 3rd location. Zep was twice the cost and no service from the local guys, and one location had been using a local "bathtub blender" as Robert would call them at a very low cost. The only problem with the local guy was the quality of the product. Any other local distributers have just been shady and unreliable.

Since switching to lustra, our rep has been able to meet or exceed the low cost we saw with the local guys and provide us with service which is above and beyond. It has taken a while, but customers have come to embrace Lustrashield after we dropped Rain-X.
 

parsonii

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thanks gentleman, i forgot to mention blendco and chemquest. robert, the plethora of companies are trying to separate themselves by various claims, yes im skeptical, show me a double blind, randomized trial for any of this stuff:

teflon keeps eggs from sticking on your frying pan so it'll keep eggs from sticking to your clear coat

lustra has a product that specifically repels brake dust that other manufactures don't have or if they do, it doesn't work as well

carnuaba is some mysterious wax that only the aborigines in the amazon understand and because it's the "hardest" wax in the world it's the most protective -- even just splashed on a car

and on and on.
 

rph9168

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Regardless of what chemical company or companies products you choose to use I think what operators are looking for today is quality and price in that order. As I have under my icon, all carwashes are the same, they are different. There are many variables involved in cleaning of which chemicals are only one. I have seen some products work very well in one wash and not at all in others. You also need to know your own abilities for applying the products. I have seen some operators that were very adept at choosing and applying products and some that thought they were. If you use a rep make sure they are doing what they say they are doing use and cost wise. I am not saying none can be trusted but as a responsible operator you need to be able to analyze and evaluate their work and make sure they are performing to your advantage.

The bottom line is to find that blend of quality and cost that works best for you and your wash.
 

robert roman

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“.... plethora of companies are trying to separate themselves by various claims…..”

Differentiation, a technique commonly used by many business owners including carwash operators.

“teflon keeps eggs from sticking on your frying pan so it'll keep eggs from sticking to your clear coat”

Mostly agree with this one. There is little data suggesting teflon imparts an additive effect in spray or hand wax.

“lustra has a product that specifically repels brake dust that other manufactures don't have or if they do, it doesn't work as well”

Royal Sheen had a product I used some years ago called wheel wax. It was water-based solution containing polymer. In 2004, I owned C-230 kompressor – like BMW nasty brake dust. Clean rim first, spray on/wipe off. Stuff lasted about two weeks.

There is nothing mysterious about carnuaba. It is the most expensive natural wax and provides the best wet look and texture (smoothness). Protection depends on application.

Hand applied leaves behind layer that traps dirt. However, carnuaba breaks down at 181 degrees F, melts and wears off easily. In other words, it doesn’t have much staying power against high temperatures and UV.

“….even just splashed on a car”

Adding a small amount of carnauba to liquid application (spray, lava foam) does impart desired qualities to paint surface. Copycat products that do not contain carnuaba produce similar results using organic solvent, surfactant and amine salt mixture.

Amine salt increases solubility and mixtures can enhance gloss and confer smoothness and anti-static properties, like wax.
 

rph9168

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Years ago I had a report from DuPont, the makers of Teflon, that stated that Teflon does not provide any additional protection in a polish or wax. It is a powder that must be heated at a high temperature to become a liquid and used in coating on a surface like in cookware. It was originally developed to be used as a protective coating in missiles and spacecraft. While a product may have a minute amount of Teflon in it, it does not provide any real benefit. Today it is used in products more as a marketing ploy rather than providing anything else in the way of protection.

Carnauba is a natural wax that comes from the leaves of a Carnauba tree in South America. It is actually considered a food product and is used in some candies like M&M's in its hard shell and in many waxes that are used to polish and protect fruits such as apples. It is a very hard wax that is heated then mixed with a solvent to keep it in suspension before it can be added to a polish. It does provide additional shine and protection but as Bob suggests not for an extended period of time. There are many synthetic blend waxes that in reality provide a better shine and longer protection.
 

carnut2

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Has anyone tried QualChem products. Was wondering what your thoughts were.
 

Axxlrod

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Anybody using Warsaw chems in their tunnel?

I've been using Blue Coral, but the cost is quite high, and they changed reps recently, and I don't get the service I used to. Looking for alternatives.
 

Earl Weiss

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Tried some Warsaw polish wax . AFAIAC KR was better bang for the buck.
 

dlc95

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I've been using Stone Soap in the past three months I've had my own wash. I've always liked their products. They seemed to be pretty popular here in the Metro Detroit area. I live about fifteen minutes away, which makes it very easy to obtain product. I'd love to give Turtle Wax a try though. The first wash I ever worked used TW, and I have good memories of it.
 

Earl Weiss

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No, it's in their tunnel products section. Same art as their "Conditioner" and triple foam soap.
 

hkim310

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We were originally with Eco Lab (now Zep) but had switched to Simoniz around 2 years ago. Been with Simoniz since. We are just about finished with the install for the Lava products. Our menu format is about to completely change with the Lava and I will keep you guys informed on if it was a good move or not.
 

Waxman

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I buy everything from kleen rite and have for years.

i like: kr super kleen powder, simoniz foam additive, kr low ph pink foam polish, kr kleen seal w/teflon.
 

hkim310

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Anyone have any experience with T&E chemicals out of Metuchen NJ? Any information would be greatly appreciated!
 

TEEBOX

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I use to use Stone Soap 7 years ago. Product was good but had a hard time with rep.

Out of curiosity are you and Express Exterior Wash? What is your entry price? I'm at $4. Thinking very hard to go up to $5 and $1 more for all my package since September when minimum wage went up. Nobody has pulled the trigger around here yet!
 
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