Converyor Speed

[TEEBOX]

Hello,

What is considered best carwash business practices when it comes to conveyor speed?

I ask because winter is almost upon us and would like to max out conveyor speed without sacrificing quality.

I'm currently at 110 CPH and the backs of the SUV's with visors at the roof line block the wraparounds. The rear windows that are inclined Also, I do not have flex or pivoting wraparounds, mine are Standard up and down wraparounds by Hanna.

My towel dryers clean and dry those areas that are not brushed.

My goal is to reduce the labor at the end of tunnel, no towel dryers. I want to install a on line tire shine applicator, flash drying to start.

Your thoughts!

Thanks in Advance.

 

[SErep]

There's a couple different schools of thought when it comes to chain speed:
Adjust to volume
1 speed all the time
When adjusting to volume, there are several things to consider. You can't just throw up the speed and expect the same result as at a slower rate. By speeding up the conveyor, you are reducing the amount of time each car spends with each component throughout the wash process. Less dwell time, less touches by friction, less strokes of high pressure, etc. You are also lessening the amount of chemistry being applied to the car, the amount of water being used to rinse it, etc. These all have to be taken into consideration when adjusting speed.
The other school of thought is to find the fastest speed possible that you can run and still produce a clean, dry, shiny car, one that you are proud of, and then leave it alone. Go past that speed and you know you are putting out an inferior product. Slow it down and you are just wasting chemistry, water, electric, etc.
There may be some seasonal adjustments to make from there; hot water to chemistry, more gpm flow rated nozzles, but for the most part it's set and forget.
If you're looking to reduce your labor, you may have to make up for it by using additional chemistry and slowing the conveyor down, not speeding it up.

 

[Earl Weiss]

AFAIAC - No simple answer. You are in the snow and salt belt. In winter Salt may make cars look dirtier than summer but salt is soluble and can act as a a solvent as a result cars look worse but are easier to clean until they get cold to a point where dirt is frozen on and you need time to thaw it as part of the process. I am also of the opinion that 2 sets of wraps are a must. Triple would be better. You say your wraps don't pivot or flex - perhaps it's time for an upgrade. CPH speed is often measured differently. I use the Sonny's example factoring an average car + space at 20 feet. So, foot per second is 3 cars a minute i 180 CPH. Don't trust the controller to give an accurate number.
Sonny's also has a table for wrap RPM to increase with conveyor speed. I tend to crank the conveyor up until I reach a point that the wraps won't cover the back. Reverse wraps have trouble getting out of the way at faster speeds. So, there is lots to consider.
FWIW my max speed time is full size car which used to be Grand Marquis size and max would be 15 seconds bumper to bumper. Now I sue a Grand Cherokee or similar vehicle. (Time between cars may vary by equipment / roller spacing)

 

[washnshine]

If you want to eliminate your towel dry labor and increase conveyor speed, you most certainly will have to add additional cleaning power somewhere. Maybe it is in the prep area, a second set of flex wraps as Earl said, or maybe some frictionless cleaning components to target the problem areas. Either way, you are looking for two benefits as an operator: 1. faster chain speed and 2. less labor, so there will certainly need to be compensation in some other area to prevent a sacrifice in wash quality.

 

[robert roman]

“….winter is almost upon us and would like to max out conveyor speed without sacrificing quality.” Another goal is “….reduce the labor at the end of tunnel, no towel dryers.”

So, really the overall goal and objective is to maximize profits.

You plan to achieve this by maximizing capacity (without losing quality) and eliminating towel drying (reduce operating expenses).

What is principal constraint that limits moving toward or achieving goal and objective of reducing operating expense?

Answer – the wraps don’t pivot so towel drying is needed to clean the missed dirt.

How best to exploit the constraint and break it.

Here, solution is to install a set of wraps that will get “those areas that are not brushed.”

Alternatively, you could move towel dryers from exit end to entrance end and have them prep “those areas that are not brushed.” This would avoid cost of new wraps but it would not reduce labor (operating expense).

Principal constraint that limits carwash throughput is the physical capacity of the machine.

For example, consider capacity ratings for new conveyors (3’ 4” roller spacing). 50’ is up to 60 CPH, 60’ is up to 70 CPH, 100’ is up to 120 CPH and so forth. This is ratio of 1.2 (CPH / length).

So, if conveyor is 80’ long and roller spacing is 3’ 4”, we might expect capacity of up to 96 or 100 CPH.

Actual line speed can be calculated by measuring how many seconds it takes roller to move by.

For example, if it takes 30 seconds for 8 rollers to move by (3’ 4” spacing), conveyor line operating speed would be 120 CPH.

So, maximizing capacity depends on how long the conveyor is.

 

[hkim310]

We don't really adjust our conveyor speed. We follow the 1 speed all the time rule. We set it as fast as we can set it without degradation on wash quality. What we noticed more than anything else was a decrease on how dry the vehicle was at the faster chain speeds.....

 

[rph9168]

I recommend that an operator set his chain speed at the rate his wash can comfortably handle the load and adjust his chemicals accordingly. Any time the chain speed is changed the chemicals must also be adjusted for peak performance and most efficient use. As far as why speeding up the chain reducing drying has to do more with dwell time than anything else. A general rule is that the slower the speed the less amount of chemicals is required while speeding it up increases chemical cost. An operator should decide if the additional cost of chemicals to increase output is best for their wash.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I will dissagre with some of the above. While speed affects quality, the type of dirt odes as well. Cooked on summer stuff. bird poop and tree sap is harder to get off than Salt. For summer stuff, increasing dwell time seems to trump increasing chemical strength. Summer stuff needs more dwell and less chemicals. If you run 30 seconds a car in the summer and 20 seconds in the winter to make a simple calculation that could use 3 units of solution in summer vs versus 2 in winter. So, in theory you could increase the solution strength quite a bit at no cost. (if you even need to). Then of course you need to factor the whole temperature thing. Easier at 30 degrees than 3 degrees.

 

[rph9168]

I would agree. We always used to adjust the chain speed at the change of seasons and cleaning conditions and sometimes even changed the chemicals we were using. I knew some washes out West where they would even adjust chain speed after heavy rains due to excessive amounts of road film that would accumulate on vehicles but personally I thought that was not necessary if the wash was set up properly to begin with.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Always fun to see someone come in when it's -3 and the car has been running for 5 minutes or less and the water flash freezes on the car. Then you need to run the line slow or put hot water on so the windshield ice will clear and they can see to exit.

 

[TEEBOX]

I just timed my conveyor speed and its 34 seconds in a 20 foot space. 3600/34 equals to 105.8 CPH. There are 3600 seconds in an hour. I am very pleased with the results so far. Any faster and the wraparounds do not hit the backs ends that well particularly on SUV's with the inclined window with visor. That is still a challenge. I guess I will tweak a little bit more before I finally settle on a speed.

 

[robert roman]

While calibrating conveyor speed, rent a strobe light and measure rotational speed of wraps.

For example, ideal penetration of cloth (6”) with soft-cloth wraps occurs at about 60 RPM.

Faster rotational speed may get more total work accomplished in same space, but cloth penetration is less so spots may be missed.

 

[Washmee]

I just timed my conveyor speed and its 34 seconds in a 20 foot space. 3600/34 equals to 105.8 CPH. There are 3600 seconds in an hour. I am very pleased with the results so far. Any faster and the wraparounds do not hit the backs ends that well particularly on SUV's with the inclined window with visor. That is still a challenge. I guess I will tweak a little bit more before I finally settle on a speed.

I don’t know what your annual volume is or what kind of peak volume days you have, but there is no way you could produce 104/cph at that conveyor speed. If it works for you at that speed leave it alone because I have to believe you are getting a very clean and dry car. The only drawback is that you are using more chemical and utilities. I run ny conveyor at 10ft/13sec and get a great result.

 

[JustaGuy]

I don’t know what your annual volume is or what kind of peak volume days you have, but there is no way you could produce 104/cph at that conveyor speed. If it works for you at that speed leave it alone because I have to believe you are getting a very clean and dry car. The only drawback is that you are using more chemical and utilities. I run ny conveyor at 10ft/13sec and get a great result.

Figuring 20' per car including space between cars, 34 seconds per 20 feet does work out to 105.8 cars/hour. That would be absolute max production capacity of course...

 

[Washmee]

Figuring 20' per car including space between cars, 34 seconds per 20 feet does work out to 105.8 cars/hour. That would be absolute max production capacity of course...

In theory yes, but you are never going to get every customer to load their car, find neutral, etc...

 

[Earl Weiss]

While calibrating conveyor speed, rent a strobe light and measure rotational speed of wraps.

For example, ideal penetration of cloth (6”) with soft-cloth wraps occurs at about 60 RPM.

Faster rotational speed may get more total work accomplished in same space, but cloth penetration is less so spots may be missed.

What would you use for a timing mark? What would be the speed of the strobe? 120 or 12 volt? How to connect 12 V? Run wires etc.? Heck, I just tie a plastic grocery bag to the brush and have one guy count while another times.

 

[JMMUSTANG]

What would you use for a timing mark? What would be the speed of the strobe? 120 or 12 volt? How to connect 12 V? Run wires etc.? Heck, I just tie a plastic grocery bag to the brush and have one guy count while another times.

FUNNY
I needed a good laugh
Old school

 

[robert roman]

What would you use for a timing mark? What would be the speed of the strobe? 120 or 12 volt? How to connect 12 V? Run wires etc.? Heck, I just tie a plastic grocery bag to the brush and have one guy count while another times.

I spent 20 seconds online and found digital photo sensor for measuring rpm of any spinning object - $37.00

Strobes are between $50 and $100.

There are even smart phone apps to measure rpm.

Point device towards spinning brush, push button, digital read out gives rpm.

Simple.

 

[TEEBOX]

What would you use for a timing mark? What would be the speed of the strobe? 120 or 12 volt? How to connect 12 V? Run wires etc.? Heck, I just tie a plastic grocery bag to the brush and have one guy count while another times.

I put a micro fiber towel on the wraparound and timed it for 60 seconds. i counted 56 RPM on the wraparounds. Didn't need to spend the $$$ to determine it. Unless that's wrong?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I put a micro fiber towel on the wraparound and timed it for 60 seconds. i counted 56 RPM on the wraparounds. Didn't need to spend the $$$ to determine it. Unless that's wrong?

And you spent no time on line looking for a gizmo, no time on line ordering, no $ spent, no looking for a gizmo. You Luddite.